Gita Coaching

May 11, 2013 (VNN) – Tatjana Stankovic, PXD System International interviews Aleksandar Akrura Todorovic, Gita Coaching

                T: Many questions have been asked on the topic of personal realization from different business gurus, very famous ones, and realization of their names, principles by different people and businessman. Many questions were answered and also many questions remain unanswered by the most brilliant minds and business gurus. Some of the crucial points have no crucial answer and bring people in confusion. Me, as a long year reader, attender and follower of all new business trends make me ask some questions for resolving certain dilemmas.

                A:First of all, to make a few comments about Bryan Tracy in general and then I will answer your question. I have read several books of Brian Tracy and have listened to audiotapes and he is a very prolific author. He wrote a lot about success and he is definitely a very diligent reader, he learns, he knows so much. He’s read so many authors and learned from so many people. So I was curious about his spiritual use and then in the book “Focal Point”, in one of the last chapters, I think the last chapter of that book, he explains some of his spiritual views. And I don’t know if he is, like, a religious person but in his books he doesn’t reveal very much. Sometimes he mentions…actually in one audio program he said that: “Prayer is the highest form of affirmation.” and that was something very surprising for me to hear because he very rarely even mentions God or something related to God or religion. And, of course, all religious people will kind of “cheer up”, I say, cheer for that and they would really agree that prayer is the best affirmation. And the spiritual views that he has expressed in “Focal Point”, again, are not directly speaking about our relationship with God. Now, I have sometimes e-mail exchanges with him and he speaks about “super conscious mind” and I told him that actually in the Bhagavad Gita it is explained that, actually, the “super conscious mind” is actually the “Super Soul”.

                A: Super soul. Yes. And we didn’t discuss it or we didn’t debate on it, he just agreed with what I wrote…that this is, actually, the source of our, all our intelligence and this kind of intelligence that when he speaks of some higher intelligence, that when he speaks about the “super conscious mind” and a very strong intuition is coming from the Super Soul which is described in the Bhagavad Gita as the expansion of God, which is accompanying us throughout the material life, this experience in the material world and helping us, giving us knowledge, inspiration, even forgetfulness, remembrance, ideas, creativity. And…so he himself and many other authors, they actually avoid discussing God and religion and some of them like Kim Blanchard, author of the “One Minute Manager”, he speaks more directly and he has even teamed up with a pastor or a minister and they have a project called “Lead Like Jesus”. So Steven Khalil speaks that the principles he teaches come from God. And in his audio program “First Thing’s First” he says “the top priority, my first duty is the deity”. So some mention God and some don’t. And other authors, they make distinction between religion and spirituality and then they then present some kind of impersonal spirituality where you don’t speak about God, you speak about divinity, or divine, or the universe. But you don’t acknowledge that behind the universe or behind the universal intelligence there is a person.

                A: Yes, they will speak about divinity and about many things but they don’t mention God. And, of course, people have been disappointed with religion and religious people, because many of them are not very “saintly” and don’t show always high character, but it doesn’t mean that one should dismiss the science of God. And this science of God is described in the Bhagavad Gita. So it has to do with success because if there is a Creator, He knows the laws of the universe, He knows the laws of success and all this things come from Him. Many people speak about principles of success, laws of success, but they don’t speak about the lawmaker. So Bhagavad Gita explains this in more detail and there is actually a universal management, where there are higher beings. They are called demigods and they also can help us with our economic and other kinds of pursuits. This is described in the Gita: how if you cooperate with this higher intelligence people, actually you can be better off spiritually and materially.

                A: Yeah, or his representatives, if you want real success and lasting success. And later we will discuss about success beyond this lifetime. And I also had some exchanges with Bryan Tracy about that. Like, I said, “You are teaching success which is only within the limited time span which is fifty years or hundred years, but it’s actually very short. What about… what happens after that? And he said, “Oh, we don’t know, therefore we can not discuss it.” So I think he has maybe a policy to not discuss with religious people because you can’t argue with them and they are always right, they are very self-righteous and they want to impose on you some Biblical truth or some Buddhist truth or Hindu truth or whatever. And he didn’t want to discuss with me, but I told him that: “How come you didn’t hear about Mr. Stivenson who is a scientist, and who has proven, who did a research and he has actually proven reincarnation. He has found people who remember their past lives in detail and the places where they lived and the people although they have never been there in their life. And many such examples, I mean incredible examples. So this doesn’t have to even necessarily be scientific…some tangible proof. And he didn’t respond to that. So I was wandering maybe he keeps this, like, private thinking, private reading. He doesn’t…because in the business world you don’t speak about religion very much. But in the Vedic times there were four principles: dharma, artha, karma and moksha. And dharma means religious principles. When you follow them you get artha or economic development or wealth. And then when you have these things you can have kama or sense gratification, all kinds of facilities and enjoyment. And when you get fed up with all this you look for liberation. So, you know, there are teaching principles to attain success and success mainly means money and money means enjoyment. And this formula has been there in the Vedas for thousands of years but they don’t have the complete formula. There is even a fifth dimension. I mentioned these four but there is a fifth dimension, which we can speak about later. So your question is how to create… euphoric??

                A: This has to do with motivating people to work, how to work. And then if you find out what motivates people and if you understand that there are various levels of motivation. You can motivate them on a superficial level and you can motivate them on a deeper level. So if you understand every person, every employee and speak to them personally and see what motivates them, you can even ask them – it’s not always money. You know “If you do this you will get so much money.” People want recognition, people want development opportunities; they want to be able to grow, they want to feel accepted in the community, appreciated…

                A: Yeah, sales force, employees in the broadest sense… but sales force is also employees.  If you want to motivate them… So you understand what motivates them. If you have sales people you can ask them: “What motivates you?” Some of them will say maybe money, but not only money. There is so many studies and surveys done that shows that it’s not only money that motivates people. So if you want to create really, like a fired up sales force, another aspect of that is that your sales people use the product they sell. This could help, because they are convinced that this would benefit our clients.

A: Yes. And then if they are not doing it just mechanically, just to make money but they enjoy selling this because they know that it’s not only about selling and making money. It’s about benefitting our clients, our customers long-term. And that can inspire them. Then… you can do some things with money, like some incentives and you can… I mean…Jay Abraham explains if you understand the life-time value of a customer you can actually reward your sales force much more if they bring in customers which will continue buying from you over longer periods of time like years or a lifetime. And these people will bring you more customers. So a lifetime value… If you can calculate the life time value of a customer you are not afraid to be generous with you sales force in rewarding them for their bringing in customers.

                T: This is on the side of the sales force. This is a very good point. This is not what I meant to ask, actually. But it is a very good point. His point and his question was, “How to make clients buy like crazy?” This is what he called euphoric sales.

                A: Ah, euphoric sales, not euphoric sales force.

                A: Oh, okay.

A: I think more important than them buying like crazy is that they buy for their whole life. Because if they buy for their whole life this means they trust you and this means also they will direct other people to you. They will bring more customers. So, they can buy either more of the same product or they can buy combinations of products. They can buy the product you sell and something that will help them. Like if you sell laptops than also a bag for the laptop would be helpful. And if you’re selling them together give some discount or whatever, or give it as a gift. So clusters or combinations of products…this can increase their purchase, this can increase sales. Then you can inspire your clients to buy more from you or they can bring more clients and you can give then discount if they bring more clients. So these are some of the ways… and if you have…I mean Kim Blanchard he calls them “raving fans”

                A: Yes. So raving fans are people who really trust you, so you have to build trust. And how to build trust? By showing that you care and that you know something. You care for them, you want the best for them but you are also an expert, you have good products, you have good services, you are giving them the best advice. And I think then, you know, they will never actually leave the company. They will never stop doing business with you. Because, still, after so many seminars on sales, on success, on customer service- customer service is poor.

                A: Yes.

                A: I heard an interview by Kit Richards, the guitarist of the Rolling stones. And, you know, they don’t speak very much about God in their music, here and there, interviews also. Mick Jagger and Kit Richards. But he says that the songs come to him… and he says that if the songs wouldn’t come to him he wouldn’t do music, he wouldn’t play music. So any intelligent person will ask the natural question “Where does it come from?” So if you say it comes from somewhere then you should be grateful to somewhere, ha hah(laughs)… But I say it comes from someone not from somewhere because intelligence cannot come from the empty space. It comes from a person.

                A: Yes. So the Vedic literature, the Bhagavad Gita explains that inspiration and ideas come from the Super Soul. Bhagavad Gita says: “ mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca”, from the Super Soul in the heart of every living being comes knowledge, forgetfulness and remembrance. And knowledge is also synonymous for ideas, for creativity. And this is something that authors who try to explain… they don’t know this. And Bryan Tracy speaks about “super conscious mind” as I mentioned and then, I mean I wrote him: it’s not a super conscious mind it’s actually a Super Soul, which is an expansion of God within your heart and He gives you intelligence and ideas. And he helps you remember things also. So there is this distinction that in the success literature of many modern gurus we are credited to be the only doer. But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, “You are not the only doer. There is somebody else who is helping you all the time. You don’t recognize him and you are not grateful enough.”

                T: Okay. You mentioned this before but this is one more good point. So the question is that if everything is copied, now again about copying, I think nowadays the world doesn’t miss anything on impersonalism towards the customers and with the customers. And personalism, because I was also reading Bhagavad Gita, is a spiritual principle from Bhagavad Gita. What will you say about this?

                A: One question about the purpose of products or the purpose of services is… what they are meant for, what is their purpose? You can create so many products that will just help you eat better, ha hah… and animals also eat vey successfully. Then you can create so many products that help you sleep better. It may be better beds, it may be better bed sheets, it may be round beds, it may be a bed with music or a stereo but it’s all meant for sleeping. You can adjust the temperature in the room where you sleep, you can have a video… you have so many things to help you sleeping, sleeping pills, but it’s the same activity as, you know, the animals are sleeping too. Then you can have so many products to improve your sex life. So many arrangements and hotels and brothels; then you can have so many products to protect yourself to defend yourself, to shelter yourself. But what about products that will help us raise our consciousness. Now you may say, “Yes, I like that! (laughs) I‘m taking LSD because it will raise my consciousness.” But actually you can’t raise your consciousness with chemicals, you can only agitate the mind and get some hallucinations, and in order to raise your consciousness you need different kind of products. You need, actually, spiritual products. So market is not only about satisfying our material needs. It’s also about satisfying our spiritual needs. So I think future markets will be full of spiritual products. And in one sense it’s happening, like there is books which helps you to live a more happy life and they speak about spirituality and there are different products that help, like, you know, meditating music. There are products, it’s an industry. It’s a business. Now, sales help or success is a multi billion dollar business today. It’s a big business. On seminars you pay a few thousand dollars, you buy books, you buy tapes, and like that. So already there is things that are helping us to develop higher consciousness. But an innovative person will find ways to make all these products interesting and to make them relevant. Actually if you…I think that the essence of marketing is that you show how something is important and why they should use it or buy it. And when people see that “this might help me, this person understands my needs” then they will get interested…

                T: And this is a personal approach?

                A:Personal approach also means that you talk to a person and see how they can use your service or product in the optimal way. So personalization of business is very important. And again, as I said, still, the customer service is quite low. If you take the overall, you know, like, planetary survey you will see that it’s still on a very low level. Some companies are doing better, some companies are doing worse but there is no… high culture. And those companies that are distinct, they actually have adopted a culture of service more seriously.

                T: There is one topic that I’m always personally interested in and I will mention now Robert Kiyosaki. I was really amazed, actually, by him and I took a personal course from him and from his trainers and he is very famous for his quadrants. He says people are divided into four groups. They are either employed or self-employed or businessmen or investors and the…is very rich. And he mentions the knowledge that could change your life. This is very important because knowledge can change your life, nothing else, not money. First you have to have knowledge and then you can make money. And now the main question I always have: okay, if you are employed you will do this, if you are a businessman you will do that and then you will become rich, and ok, this is an okay explanation, he is very popular. But, for example, I had this dilemma. He was teaching me what should I do and he was teaching my friend what he should do. And he was teaching the same principles and we did the same things at the same time in the same way, no difference. And I succeeded and my friend didn’t. So, why is that so. The same business principles, two different people, the same time, nothing avoided. But the result was brilliant with me and with my friend it was not. Why is that so?

                A: There may be two reasons. One is karma. By your karma… you had better karma, so by your karma you’re entitled to better results. And another thing is that there is a higher control of the results that we achieve. This is also a big distinction between the Bhagavad Gita as a success book and the teachings of modern success teachers. They say if you do like this and if you are determined and, you know, persistent you will achieve results. But actually results are not completely in our hands. We can make our best effort, we can follow certain principles, we can do what successful people have done and still we won’t necessarily get results. Because there is a higher approval needed from higher authorities. Whatever you call them. You can call them nature, you can call them demigods, you can call them the Supreme God, but we are not the only ones who are in control of our results. And, therefore, what Bhagavad Gita suggests is to cooperate with these higher beings, with these higher authorities and that will help your success, both material and spiritual.

                T: What is confusing for many people is this word karma. What that has to do with the results? I mean, for me it’s obvious and normal to understand but how can we explain in the easiest possible way to the people what karma means?

                A:Karma is very simple. It’s the law of action and reaction. So you create a certain amount of good karma and bad karma. And even while you are creating some good karma by your hard work or by your good deeds, then still you have to pay for your bad karma. So the man who was working hard to develop a business, he may have accumulated some good results, depends how he was developing it. But, still, if by his karma and by the arrangements of the higher authorities the time has come to suffer a loss then this will happen. So this means that we are not completely in control of the results. And we can do… we can follow a thousand principles of success and still not be successful because it’s not completely in our hands.

                T: Okay. Now, I remember Steven Covey, we mentioned some authors but let us talk about Steven Khalil. I think that Steven Covey touched the point of spirituality more successfully than others because some habits he has are still very strong spiritual principles as well. So his seventh principle is totally holistic- body, mind and soul. Still I would add the quote by Srila Prabhupada Swami, a very spiritual and a very special person. He says, “Religion without philosophy is sentiment or sometimes fanaticism while philosophy without religion is mental speculation.” We have a very strong business based philosophy in Covey’s books but there is no religion behind that as Prabhupada says. What would you say about that? What does Bhagavad Gita say?

                A:Steven Covey, l I think he has done a lot of…favor to spirituality and to, even, religion because he has thought people humility, he has thought people… he calls it “the humility of principles”. This means that you can control your effort but you can’t control the results. Results are controlled by principles. Or consequences, consequences are controlled by principles. And principles are natural laws and principles are something outside of view. So he gives an example of a ship that sees the light in the distance and then gives a sign to that light to move because the captain thinks it’s a ship, another ship. And then after some time, after a few exchanges with these signals the light signs say that, “I am a lighthouse, I can’t move.  You have to move.” So similarly the natural laws are like lighthouses. If you follow them you can find your way but if you don’t you can just break yourself. You can’t break then. You can break yourself against them. So if this sheep wouldn’t agree to avoid the island where the lighthouse is situated no matter how big it is, it would just break. So Covey speaks about these principles, these natural laws and he also says that these are… actually the origin of these principles is God. And then he was a highly moral person, I mean he had his wife and he was a very responsible family man. He was teaching about this and also very charitable and… he was working so hard to help people. And sometimes he would quote some very spiritual persons and give examples. But still, again, they don’t give the whole picture, they don’t give the whole truth and also these people, these teachers, they don’t speak about the next life. They don’t speak about success beyond this lifetime. And that’s what is missing and what Bhagavad Gita gives.

                T: Where is the religion part in the philosophy? They give philosophy but where is the religion part? This is what Srila Prabhupada mentions.

                A:Right. They give principles, they give philosophy, they give systems, they give ideas and religion is missing, it’s missing quite a lot because religion has to do with God and they are kind of neglecting, sidelining God. Putting him on the side, mentioning him very shyly, very rarely. Which is actually not fair because He is the One who gives success. He is the One who gives opulence. He is the One who gives money, the One who gives wealth. And those people whose consciousness is higher… they actually recognize this.

                T: And one very, very provocative question… And it’s connected to the book I read by Frank Bettger. And the story I read from his book is very interesting. His most famous book is called “How I Raised Myself From a Failure to Success in Selling”. Actually he was illiterate, he didn’t know how to write because he was an ex baseball player but he is one of the most popular and best- seller of insurances. Now what is the question? The question is about the story about Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln’s story, I have to say before I ask the question, says that after many defeats he had had, he lost one election, another, his wife died, again he lost another election, he had so many defeats. But still he marked the history and became one of the most famous presidents at that time in America. Now the most provocative question, the ego question actually is, “Was he responsible for his success because he was persistent? Whose credit is his success? He did one good shot and he succeeded but is he responsible for that?

                A: This is an excellent question. Who is responsible for our success? Again I go back to my previous point that we are not the only doer. So we are responsible for our success in a sense that we have to make an effort, a sincere effort and also this effort has to be intelligent. Not just work hard but also work smart. So persistence is one of the important principles of success but if it’s not meant to be, if it’s not your karma or if higher authorities don’t agree to give you results, you will not have results. You can do anything you want- you will still not have results. So this understanding of the cooperation with higher authorities, higher beings, is very important for lasting success. And again, his success to become a president of the United States is… I don’t know how long… if he had one term of four years or two terms but this is also temporary. And to be the president of the United States is actually very difficult. And also when you become president of any country you take on like one sixth of the karma of the people whom you are leading, so it’s not actually a very confortable position. You may have some facilities for some time but… So the view, the perspective of the Bhagavad Gita is not only short term like a few years, four years, eight years. It’s actually looking at your whole life. And to me that’s much more intelligent.

                T: I had an intention to ask a question about Jim Rohn but it’s almost the same like the previous one about Khalil. I had a chance to see him alive in Munich, to listen to him and he was talking like a real preacher. But actually, again, in all his preaching something was missing. There was a deep philosophy in all that but religion was missing. And because we previously said about Srilla Prabhupada’s quote, I think that we don’t need to repeat this again, but there is something else that I would like to ask. I remember Tom Hopkins, he was also in Skopje, he is a very, very good writer and guru and a very famous one and one of his most famous books is “How to Master the Art of Selling” and very practical advise he has…and one of his most famous sentences is …Is it not an alternative question… not to allow the customer to say no and so on and so on, then from “a very small yes to one big yes” techniques and other type of techniques. Now my question is, “Can you name some sales techniques, if I can ask this kind of question, from Bhagavad Gita?”

                A: Bhagavad Gita might not give direct sales techniques but it gives principles of interaction of dealings where it explains the values. So what is worth your buying? So if we understand what kind of value we want, what do we want to buy then we will try to buy it and try to pay the price. And on the side of a sales person if we want to sale something to anyone I think we should be convinced of its value by using it ourselves, as we mentioned. And then we want the best benefit for our clients. And as you said- “personalize, seek”. Maybe some product or service that suits me will not suit you. We have to see what suits you. So, therefore, I have to see you first to understand you… understand what is your need. Therefore I have to listen carefully and deeply. And then understand…and then when you see that I understand you I think you will tend to trust me, and you will tend to do business with me for a long time.

                T: There is one more author that has a splendid book. He is called Robin Sharma and the book is called “The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari”. And it’s a very famous book. But unfortunately…and there are a lot of spiritual principles because the person in the book went in India and thought in which way to live, so he came back and tried to do the things and he made money again and, unfortunately, everything is splendid, the book is nice to be read, but, again, he talks only about success through the prism of money. So the center of their universe is money connected to what the business is doing. And what Bhagavad Gita says about that?

                A: Bhagavad Gita explains that we are not one-dimensional beings. So we are spiritual beings, we also have a mind, we have intelligence, we have emotions, which are part of the mind; we have physical needs, we have spiritual needs. So focus on money as the main basis for success is actually not very intelligent. Because even Beatles were singing: “money can’t buy me love”, and we know that love is a great source of happiness…everybody wants some love. You may buy sex but you cannot buy love. So if we understand that people have more than one need and that different products and services should fulfill all these needs especially the spiritual ones then we will have a different look at the business. What kind of needs your business fulfills? And in which way? And one thing about success teachers in general…they are actually like preachers who are not fair. What I mean is that they take so much from God and don’t give him credit. There is so many success teachers who use even examples from the Bible. Sometimes they mention the Bible sometimes they don’t. So my point is that whatever you teach give enough credit to the source. Be fair…instead of taking just great credit for yourself as a great thinker and innovator in the field of business. Because there is nothing new under the sun! The principles of success have been here from the time of the creation and from the time of the Creator…ha hah. And…so…it’s just very…It would be a fair thing to do– to give credit to the person who deserves the credit.

                A: I also…ha hah…it’s a little bit strange to comment on that book. I can comment on the title and the kind of…how do you say…the pictures that it initiates in my mind. My friends were telling me about that book, and they say like “be here now”, “be happy now”, and similar things. But, actually, from the point of view of the Bhagavad Gita I have to question this. My question is “What is it that you are doing in ‘the now’? What is it that you are thinking in ‘the now’?” And if…you may be aware of the power of now and you may concentrate on the now but if you are thinking nonsense and doing nonsense then your “now” is nonsense….

                T: It seems like nonsense…

                A: It doesn’t seem. It is nonsense. But if you are doing things that are beneficial for you and for others, if you are acting according to the eternal or timeless principles of success in the now then your now is high quality now. So it’s not about now, it’s about what is in the now.

                A: I invite all our listeners or readers of the interview to actually read the Bhagavad Gita. This is a very old book, but very relevant. It’s not meant for the old age, the past. It’s meant actually for all times. It’s very fresh even today, especially “Bhagavad Gita As It Is” by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad. The Gita has not been changed and when you read it you will understand why. And if you don’t understand why it’s a special, exquisite version of the Gita you can contact me and I can answer all of your questions. You can contact me on my e-mail, my blog, my facebook, and the links are below. So this is the wisdom that has been given to us to attain success and to improve the quality of our lives. This afternoon I have collected from the Vedic teachings about over two thousand pages of quotes on success from a higher point of view. So this all can be relevant to our readers and I can share it. I just have to tidy up and sort out the categories and the quotes but these are amazing. This is the success philosophies of highly developed human beings. These are the success philosophies that stand beyond this lifetime. It’s not only about this short lifetime, thirty years of success, fifty years of success. It’s about building our capacity to enjoy eternally.

                A: It was my pleasure.