1. Choice of language

2. Conspiracy

(September 24th, 1998, four days before the forum was created by the COM sysops)

"As I understand it Maharaja, GHQ is going to be a think tank with the mandate to prepare a paper with proposals to the GBC to check apasiddhanta in the form of "feminism" in ISKCON. So..." (5.3)

conspiracy, n., 1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, treacherous, or evil act. 2. A combining or acting together, as if by evil design: a conspiracy of natural forces. 3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or to accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

We suggest that "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" and the parties whom he represents are the real conspirators, by dint of their attempts to obstruct due process of ISKCON law. Fearing that GHQ might succeed in its mission, they conspired to obstruct the proceedings of GHQ through various illegal activities, according to ISKCON law. A full investigation is requested and required to determine exactly which ISKCON laws and laws of secular government were broken by "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" and company.

We strongly suggest that the future of ISKCON is in jeopardy if the authorized process for reform may so easily be overturned by unscrupulous parties. For a detailed account of their conspiracy see Article 25.

3. Secrecy

"Ardhabuddhi Dasa" would have us believe that there is something inherently wrong or sinister about a secret COM conference. If that be the case, then the Women's Ministry conference is also suspect. It is a small group of women, with no men allowed. The conference is private and now hidden on COM. No outsiders can know the content of their discussions. (Is it therefore a sinister group of individuals planning mayhem?)

Of course, there are legitimate reasons for private (or as "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" calls them "secret") meetings. Shyamasundara Dasa discussed this point with Bharata Sreshta Dasa, the organizer of the VAST conference, which is also a private (secret) conference, postings to which may not be further distributed:

BSd. The first point, about closed door meetings, requires a context. Certainly some kinds of decisions should be made in full public view. Many others should not. Confidentiality is a major factor in both personal relationships and management. Perhaps some people like to wear their feelings on their sleeve; but most other people will be neither candid nor creative in a public forum.

Sd. I just wanted to show that simply because something is behind closed doors doesn't make it bad. There are plenty of closed forums around, why ours couldn't be? What makes it bad for us, but okay for others?

BSd. I agree completely. Deborah Tannen is foremost in this field. Her research shows convincingly that if you put it all out front you actually deny a voice to many people, so what looks public is actually the opposite.

4. Organized by Shyamasundara (the astrologer)

1. Why there were no women on GHQ.
2. How Shyamasundara Prabhu became the "organizer" of GHQ.
3. That GHQ wanted input from chaste ladies.

4. That chaste ladies convinced GHQ members to refine their manner of speech.

5. Rights and propensities

"...individuals with the right to serve guru and Krsna according to their propensities."

The essential point for us to emphasize herein is explained by Lord Krsna in Bhagavad-gita 2.47:

karmany evadhikaras te
ma phalesu kadacana
ma karma-phala-hetur bhur
ma te sango 'stv akarmani

"You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty."

PURPORT

"There are three considerations here: prescribed duties, capricious work, and inaction. Prescribed duties are activities enjoined in terms of one's acquired modes of material nature. Capricious work means actions without the sanction of authority, and inaction means not performing one's prescribed duties. The Lord advised that Arjuna not be inactive, but that he perform his prescribed duty without being attached to the result. One who is attached to the result of his work is also the cause of the action. Thus he is the enjoyer or sufferer of the result of such actions.

"As far as prescribed duties are concerned, they can be fitted into three subdivisions, namely routine work, emergency work and desired activities. Routine work performed as an obligation in terms of the scriptural injunctions, without desire for results, is action in the mode of goodness. Work with results becomes the cause of bondage; therefore such work is not auspicious. Everyone has his proprietary right in regard to prescribed duties, but should act without attachment to the result; such disinterested obligatory duties doubtlessly lead one to the path of liberation.

"Arjuna was therefore advised by the Lord to fight as a matter of duty without attachment to the result. His nonparticipation in the battle is another side of attachment. Such attachment never leads one to the path of salvation. Any attachment, positive or negative, is cause for bondage. Inaction is sinful. Therefore, fighting as a matter of duty was the only auspicious path of salvation for Arjuna."

Women have specific duties to perform, as detailed in the sastras. Some women may not like to perform their prescribed duties, being less adept at them. They might say, "I don't have the propensity to be a housewife." They might be more capable to do something else and therefore reason, "Let me give up my prescribed duties as a woman and follow my propensities to do what I can do best." They will then neglect their husbands, children, and household affairs, generally renouncing stri-dharma to pursue their "propensities" and in so doing disturb the duties of others who depended on them to act as proper mothers and wives. But in the above verse, Krsna says "never be attached to not doing your duty." He further states in Bhagavad-gita 18.47:

sreyan sva-dharmo vigunah
para-dharmat sv-anusthitat
sva-dharme nidhanam sreyah
para-dharmo bhayavahah

"It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous."

PURPORT

"One should therefore discharge his prescribed duties in full Krsna consciousness rather than those prescribed for others. Materially, prescribed duties are duties enjoined according to one's psychophysical condition, under the spell of the modes of material nature. Spiritual duties are as ordered by the spiritual master for the transcendental service of Krsna. But whether material or spiritual, one should stick to his prescribed duties even up to death, rather than imitate another's prescribed duties. Duties on the spiritual platform and duties on the material platform may be different, but the principle of following the authorized direction is always good for the performer. When one is under the spell of the modes of material nature, one should follow the prescribed rules for his particular situation and should not imitate others. For example, a brahmana, who is in the mode of goodness, is nonviolent, whereas a ksatriya, who is in the mode of passion, is allowed to be violent. As such, for a ksatriya it is better to be vanquished following the rules of violence than to imitate a brahmana who follows the principles of nonviolence. Everyone has to cleanse his heart by a gradual process, not abruptly. However, when one transcends the modes of material nature and is fully situated in Krsna consciousness, he can perform anything and everything under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. In that complete stage of Krsna consciousness, the ksatriya may act as a brahmana, or a brahmana may act as a ksatriya. In the transcendental stage, the distinctions of the material world do not apply. For example, Visvamitra was originally a ksatriya, but later on he acted as a brahmana, whereas Parasurama was a brahmana but later on he acted as a ksatriya. Being transcendentally situated, they could do so; but as long as one is on the material platform, he must perform his duties according to the modes of material nature. At the same time, he must have a full sense of Krsna consciousness."

In this regard some light is shed by the comment of a venerable old Bengali Mataji who lives in Sri Dham Mayapura, the birth place of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We should always remember that Mayapura is the heart of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Srila Prabhupada said that Bombay was his place of doing business, Vrndavana his residence, and Mayapura his place of worship. Such elderly cultured matajis who have worshiped Lord Gauranga all their lives embody the ideals of Vedic womanhood, not the Women's Ministry. Her point being that by doing her womanly duties as an offering to Lord Krsna He will be pleased (she is specifically addressing those feminists who advocate that women should be allowed to lead kirtan, give classes, and do puja on the altar in Mayapura):

"Why can't they [feminist types] sit in their home and do these things? What is the difficulty in their doing puja at home to Deities? They can have kirtan at home twice a day. So what is the problem? Then the Lord Himself will come and take us to Him personally. It is greatly sinful to try to break conventions which have been established and instituted by exalted realized souls… …How can someone claim to be a Vaishnavi and NOT do her womanly duties?" ( 2.11)

Some Vaisnavis argue that because they are devotees they can therefore avoid such rules and regulations meant for ordinary women. But we may note in the Purport to Bg 18.47 above, that one is permitted to do so only when he has reached the perfect stage of Krsna consciousness–as exemplified by Visvamitra Rsi and Parasurama (an avatara, not a human). In other words, it is very rare, and not the rule. (By very rare we mean one in 10 billion.) Rather, we see that very great devotees such as Kunti Devi, the mother of the Pandavas, externally maintained her position as a woman and acted in that capacity, according to scriptural injunctions. Srila Prabhupada has so often stated (especially in Nectar of Devotion "The Handbook of Krsna Consciousness") that great devotees virtually always maintain and act according to external social standards, while internally engaging in nitya-lila. But he warned us that it is a symptom of sahajiyas to imagine oneself as liberated and, on that pretext, neglect social constraints for the selfish, illicit gratification of one's material bodily senses. Such contravention of scriptural injunctions governing behavior is a cause of spiritual falldown, as explained by Srila Rupa Goswami in his Upadesamrta Verse 2:

"One's devotional service is spoiled when he becomes too entangled in the following six activities: (1) eating more than necessary or collecting more funds than required; (2) over endeavoring for mundane things that are very difficult to obtain; (3) talking unnecessarily about mundane subject matters; (4) Practicing the scriptural rules and regulations only for the sake of following them and not for the sake of spiritual advancement, or rejecting the rules and regulations of the scriptures and working independently or whimsically; (5) associating with worldly-minded persons who are not interested in Krsna consciousness; and (6) being greedy for mundane achievements.

…Accepting some of the scriptural rules and regulations for immediate benefit, as utilitarians advocate, is called niyama-ägraha, and neglecting the rules and regulations of the sastras, which are meant for spiritual development, is called niyama-agraha. The word ägraha means "eagerness to accept," and agraha means "failure to accept." By the addition of either of these two words to the word niyama ("rules and regulations"), the word niyamägraha is formed. Thus niyamägraha has a twofold meaning that is understood according to the particular combination of words. Those interested in Krsna consciousness should not be eager to accept rules and regulations for economic advancement, yet they should very faithfully accept scriptural rules and regulations for the advancement of Krsna consciousness. They should strictly follow the regulative principles by avoiding illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication…

We often hear in the various flavors of feminist rhetoric that Krsna Consciousness is beyond bodily designations and at the level of the soul there is no distinction of male and female, thus, they reason, that anyone can do the duties of anyone else. We have already dealt with the flaw in this argument by pointing out that one must do their duty according to the material condition they find themselves in even at the cost of their lives:

"Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." Bg 18.47

Let us examine another flaw in their argument. They casually use the term Krsna Conscious as if we were all perfectly realized. But Krsna Consciousness is not a cheap thing. In fact it is extremely difficult. The saying is that the Krsna Consciousness is very simple but very hard to achieve. Being simple does not equate to being easy. If it were so easy why have so many devotees had serious difficulties in their spiritual lives? Even so called "big guns", sannyasis and spiritual masters have fallen by the way side. How could this be if they were Krsna Conscious? The answer is that they were not Krsna Conscious, at least not perfectly, but rather on the bodily concept of life. In reality Krsna Consciousness is extremely rare and difficult to achieve:

"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth." Bg 7.3

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare." Bg 7.19

"As long as a living entity is not completely self-realized-as long as he is not independent of the misconception of identifying with his body, which is nothing but a reflection of the original body and senses-he cannot be relieved of the conception of duality, which is epitomized by the duality between man and woman. Thus there is every chance that he will fall down because his intelligence is bewildered.

PURPORT

"Here is another important warning that a man must save himself from attraction to woman. Until one is self-realized, fully independent of the illusory conception of the material body, the duality of man and woman must undoubtedly continue, but when one is actually self-realized this distinction ceases.

vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini
suni caiva svapake ca
panditah sama-darsinah

"The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]." (Bg. 5.18) On the spiritual platform, the learned person not only gives up the duality of man and woman, but also gives up the duality of man and animal. This is the test of self-realization. One must realize perfectly that the living being is spirit soul but is tasting various types of material bodies. One may theoretically understand this, but when one has practical realization, then he actually becomes a pandita, one who knows. Until that time, the duality continues, and the conception of man and woman also continues. In this stage, one should be extremely careful about mixing with women. No one should think himself perfect and forget the sastric instruction that one should be very careful about associating even with his daughter, mother or sister, not to speak of other women. Srila Madhvacarya cites the following slokas in this regard:…" SB 7.12.10

"Hearing King Prataparudra's determination, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya became thoughtful. Indeed, he was very much astonished to see the King's determination.

PURPORT

Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya was astonished because such determination is not possible for a worldly man attached to material enjoyment. The King certainly had ample opportunity for material enjoyment, but he was thinking that his kingdom and everything else was useless if he could not see Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This is certainly sufficient cause for astonishment. In Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that bhakti, devotional service, must be unconditional. No material impediments can actually check the advancement of devotional service, be it executed by a common man or a king. In any case, devotional service rendered to the Lord is always complete, despite the devotee's material position. Devotional service is so exalted that it can be executed by anyone in any position. One must simply be drdha-vrata, firmly determined." Madhya 11.51

"We don't know what the other women think, but those of us who have been carefully trained up in Indian culture find it OBNOXIOUS to be in the limelight and allow our bodies to be observed by so many men. The same holds for leading kirtans as the temple kirtan and giving Bhagavatam class in the temple room.

"What is the problem for the Vaishnavis? They can certainly do puja/ arati/ kirtans in their homes. Why SPECIFICALLY in the temple? Why not at homes? It is better for Vaishnavis to not be so manly. We would like to be the women that Srila Prabhupada wants us to be and we would like to see this kind of cultural development encouraged here.

"This mood of "Oh! The men are doing this; we will ALSO do it!" seems to be more competitive than spiritual.

"In any case, if we want to do arati or lead kirtan for Radha Madhava, we can do it in our mind. What is the problem? We can do arati to Radha Madhava 20,000 times a day. Nobody is stopping us. According to the shastra we get the SAME result anyway. We would rather go for the result than try to get the recognition and appreciation that we are leading kirtan in the temple hall disregarding Vedic conventions.

"It appears to us that these demands may not be really motivated by desires for purely pleasing the Lord. The Lord has created Vedic culture where His male-bodied devotees and female-bodied devotees could serve in ways appropriately (not in the same way). Rather than consider a few activities of Srila Prabhupada on how he dealt with women and try to push forward the idea that Vaishnavis NEED to do the same activities as the male-bodied devotees, we would like to focus on the larger body of Srila Prabhupada's teachings on what the DUTIES of Vaishnavi women are. (Section 2.11)

"And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation of ours worships Me by his intelligence." Bg 18.70

"And by the constant hearing of the messages of the Bhagavad-gita, and later of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one is assured herein by Srila Sukadeva Gosvami that he will reach the Personality of Godhead and render Him transcendental loving service in the spiritual planet of the name Goloka Vrndavana, which resembles a huge lotus flower.

Thus by the process of bhakti-yoga, directly accepted, as suggested in this verse, by sufficient hearing of the transcendental message of the Lord, the material contamination is directly eliminated without one's attempting to contemplate the impersonal virat conception of the Lord. And by practicing bhakti-yoga, if the performer is not purified from the material contamination, he must be a pseudodevotee. For such an imposter there is no remedy for being freed from material entanglement." SB 2.2.37p

Returning to our main point: While embodied in this material world, even we practitioners of spiritual life, should perform the duties prescribed to us according to our material situation. By so doing, we will achieve perfection. And this applies equally well to women.

"By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done." (Bg 18.45)

1. Could understand simply from reading Srila Prabhupada's books what her duties as a woman were.

2. Was very independent but later surrendered to her duty and became happy.

3. Was frustrated by failure in her womanly duties but determined to succeed in those duties nevertheless.

We should like to say, as will become evident in Article 19, that GHQ was not concerned only with women's duties exclusive from those of men. We realized and emphasized that women in general would not naturally be able to perform their duties properly unless men first performed their own prescribed duties.

6. "Dharma of Women" Conference

"inspired by their discussions on the COM conference 'Dharma of Women'"

"I am convinced that Dharma of Women conference is essential to our movement, not just for the women but for everyone."

"I just also wanted to mention that I liked your contributions to the 'Dharma of Women' conference. I am a member of this conference and I generally like what I read there and also try to follow the many good advices I get there."

"Recently you posted a letter about Draupadi and her qualities. I printed it up and hung it in a high traffic area in my house. I thought it was a very good set of things to live by, although my American conditioning should have told me different!:)...However, every relationship I have seen, the women were very pushy and loud and disrespectful to their men, and the men left or were unfaithful. I am the only one who was not feeling that woman's lib thing and here I am married almost seven years and going strong, while most of my 'liberated, career minded' old friends have kids with no father. Why? Because I respect my man and treat him like a man and my teacher and the leader of this house, and I act like the woman of this house....Draupadi didn't feel degradation or humiliation in doing her duties why should we?"

"One last thing. Before I started trying to be a flea on the dog of a devotee, I was never surrendered to my husband, and considered men and women equal. But after reading the glory, love, and reverence of many of the ladies in the scriptures, and their sense of duty, I was simply entranced and amazed. I never knew being in this position could be so powerful. How very sad for those who read these stories, and turn their nose up while they mutter about being equal. We didn't get a woman's body for nothing, we got it for some reason. Perhaps to learn to surrender? Hmmmmmmm........."

"I'm a member of your conference Dharma of Women. This conference helped me a lot to realize what a fool I was (and probably still am). I have been thinking all my life that women have to be equal to men. What a nonsense. I realized that now thanks to you and other wonderful devotees on DOW. Specially Mataji Jayasri helped me a lot to realize some things. I realized that all "fights" I had with my husband were all due to my wanting to be independent and in charge of everything."

"My opinion is this: most women who are truly chaste, shy, and a good Vedic example (not me) are too busy in their womanly duties and too shy to come out and write :-). However, this is a goal, no matter how lofty, that I want to achieve, to be such a woman. My life has improved a thousand times, and so has my marriage, since I have attempted to be more surrendered to my home and husband. And he in turn has never been more surrendered to me, while being my strong protector."

"Though we are not the body, we do HAVE a body. And since we have a woman's body, we HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES AND RECOMMENDATIONS prescribed in Vedic culture and which have been INSTITUTED IN VEDIC CULTURE and which has been accepted by all acharyas including Srila Prabhupada for what a woman can do and what she cannot do. It's simple."

"Actually, I cannot stand the womenlibs. I am also in their conference [IWC], just to be informed what they are thinking and what ideas they have. Most of their ideas I do not like at all. They have some good intentions, like prevention of child abuse, but their general philosophy...I cannot agree with it."

"When I joined IWC, I had great hopes of hearing women's perspective of becoming Krsna conscious and developing our devotional mood. But, in my humble opinion, most of the discussions are grounded in material considerations and aspirations. This is not why I came to Krsna consciousness. I have had my fill of this materially centered nonsense, and am seeking higher goals."

7. Strategically renamed

"recently strategically renamed 'Dharma of Men and Women'"

8. Women not acting according to Vedic principles

"they tried to explain many current ISKCON problems as being due to women not acting according to Vedic principles."

"Here is one comment I received from a senior devotee (name withheld):

> > It's Kali yuga--what can be done? The "womyn" don't want to be >>"women". And the men don't want to be responsible.

> This is an important point. It is not that it is just woman who have to

> follow Vedic Dharma and not the men. Both have to, with the men >leading. It wont work if just the women are made to follow but the >men do nothing."

"I also, incidentally, was able to read Shyamasundara's comments and agree with him - he is also offering a very balanced viewpoint on this conference, what I've seen of it."

"The more we develop a spiritual atmosphere the more conducive a relationship will prevail. The sweetness about the Vedic culture is that it is based on love and trust. When that mood prevails then all these unpleasant competitions will disappear. Ultimately we have to create Vrindavan atmosphere and we can see how the residents of Vrindavan relate to each other. Similarly, during Caitanya Mahaprabhu's time the residents of Navadwip experienced such sweet exchanges among themselves. The main point is that by nature's arrangements men develop certain characteristics and women also develop their own. According to the Vedic description, man is like a tree and a woman is like is like a creeper and it is with the support of the tree that a creeper rises high. Therefore the most important consideration is that men and women behave according to their own nature. Any unnecessary competition will be artificial and hurt us individually and collectively."

9. Selective use quotes

"These men have been known to selectively use quotes by Srila Prabhupada, Manu Samhita and Chanakya Pandit to blame everything from divorce to wife abuse on the women's attitudes and behaviors."

The fact is that these quotes of Srila Prabhupada and other sastras do exist, and despite "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" disliking them, they will not cease to exist:

TRANSLATION

Thereafter Sati left her husband, Lord Siva, who had given her half his body due to affection. Breathing very heavily because of anger and bereavement, she went to the house of her father. This less intelligent act was due to her being a weak woman.

PURPORT

According to the Vedic conception of family life, the husband gives half his body to his wife, and the wife gives half of her body to her husband. In other words, a husband without a wife or a wife without a husband is incomplete. Vedic marital relationship existed between Lord Siva and Sati, but sometimes, due to weakness, a woman becomes very much attracted by the members of her father's house, and this happened to Sati. In this verse it is specifically mentioned that she wanted to leave such a great husband as Siva because of her womanly weakness. In other words, womanly weakness exists even in the relationship between husband and wife. Generally, separation between husband and wife is due to womanly behavior; divorce takes place due to womanly weakness. The best course for a woman is to abide by the orders of her husband. That makes family life very peaceful. Sometimes there may be misunderstandings between husband and wife, as found even in such an elevated family relationship as that of Sati and Lord Siva, but a wife should not leave her husband's protection because of such a misunderstanding. If she does so, it is understood to be due to her womanly weakness. SB 4.4.3

We now request our gentle reader to see Section 6, which graphically shows how "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" edited texts for his own designs. In this section we show three examples wherein he has cut and pasted GHQ texts to our disadvantage. Comparing the redactions to the originals, the reader will note three things:

1. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa's" rendering of those texts casts GHQ members as villains, whereas the original version shows the foibles of the purvapaksins .
2. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa's" versions are meant to hide the identity of someone.
3. That someone is the same person in each case: Mother Madhusudani Radha dd.

In the first instance "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" omitted the following piece of text which quotes Mother Madhusudani Radha dd (see Section 6.1 for complete context):

"Here's an example of what kind of response we can expect (Mad Radha re Basu Ghosh):

>I want nothing to do with these over-zealous, arch conservative,
>backwards, women-hating, oppressive people who give ISKCON a bad >name. I've engaged in too many discussions with them already. Tired
>of it. Sick of it.

We can deduce from this that they don't want to discuss, no doubt because they are exposed each time. Thus the obfuscatory invectives.

GHQ needs to present a comprehensive, balanced presentation that answers every claim of the feminazis with ample evidence from guru (Srila Prabhupada), sadhu and shastra. Let the feminazis know that we want to respect them as our worshipable mothers, but that they cannot expect or demand respect if they insist on taking the role of prostitutes.

From the story of Mohini murti we find that even the demons did not want to enter into stri-vivada (argument with a woman). Might it not be better to discuss with the husbands of these women (if they have husbands, or even if they are on their fourth husband)?"

"Ardhabuddhi Dasa" accuses us of slander, yet he and his kind are guilty of the very same act; and it now seems that they purposely hid this from the reader. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" doesn't want to include evidence of feminists slandering their opponents, because his intention is to portray his opponents as the offenders. Can he accomplish that purpose alongside evidence of women doing the same? Certainly not; therefore he flagrantly distorts the truth. Yet the fact remains that GHQ members agreed to halt speaking ill of Vaisnavis not for devious reasons, as the feminists suggest, but for purely philosophical reasons. We will show these reasons somewhat later on.

Now we humbly request our gentle reader to see Section 6.2. Apparently this second editing was meant to conceal material very implicating to ISKCON feminists, and Mother Madhusudani Radha dd in particular. The following paragraph is what "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" has quoted:

"I have thought of asking Bharata Srestha for all the texts sent to that conference during that time and then filtering out those of the variety that MR wrote. Could either of Guru-Krsna or Krishna Kirti Prabhus please get these texts. You are his god-brother and it would be less suspicious than if I asked. It would be important research."

"I do have the latest report from the European women's convention where they make such points as:

"Two presentations were made, one by Radha dasi about a model for women's participation in ISKCON from International Law and another one by Gaurangi dasi about the power of words and the correct understanding and use of certain expressions about women found in the sastras. "

This last point suggests that soon we will see very twisted interpretations of what Srila Prabhupada said about women.

The following was sent to me by a nameless devotee who is member of the VAST forum in relation to Madhusudani Radha's (hence forth MR) insistence that Srila Prabhupada's books be changed because SP had "misconceptions" because he was culturally backward and not up to modern times:

__________________

"Dear Shyamasundara Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I doubt if I have those texts to dig up. Perhaps the conference organizers, Brahmatirtha Prabhu (bobcohen@ivs.edu) or Bharata Srestha Prabhu (wwall@ivs.edu) will have them. Since her comments went to the whole conference, her views are not particularly secretive. I seem to remember that the discussion where she wrote about gender references in Srila Prabhupada's books took place on the conference around March or April of 1998, though it could have been a little earlier than that. Again, the discussion was about whether to change Srila Prabhupada's books for presentation in academic circles, especially with regards to altering passages with politically incorrect gender references. Mother Madhusudani Radha opined that these passages shouldn't be changed merely as a preaching strategy, but because Srila Prabhupada had misconceptions, deriving from his cultural upbringing, about gender roles in society.

If you want to put me on some conference as an observer, that's okay with me. If it's too much of a botheration, then I'll get myself off the conference. I'm interested to hear what devotees are saying about so many topics, but my time is limited. Hare Krsna.

Your servant, XYZ dasa"

_____________________________

I have thought of asking Bharata Srestha for all the texts sent to that conference during that time and then filtering out those of the variety that MR wrote. Could either of Guru-Krsna or Krishna Kirti Prabhus please get these texts. You are his god-brother and it would be less suspicious than if I asked. It would be important research.

The point is that if these feminists continue in their ascendancy they will force the BBT, that's you Svasa Prabhu, to edit Srila Prabhupada's books so that they are politically correct for the 90's."

Perhaps this attitude of Mother Madhusudani Radha dd is a reason that so many followers of Srila Prabhupada are disturbed by her and other feminists. Or should serious followers of Srila Prabhupada not be disturbed by such radical and offensive notions? It is not surprising, therefore, that the above passage was excluded from the "GHQ Conspiracy" expose, as it would have exposed Mother Madhusudhani Radha dd as having seriously offended Srila Prabhupada.

The disposition of ISKCON feminists regarding Srila Prabhupada and his books is very disturbing to lovers of Srila Prabhupada. Another devotee wrote:

"Don't let this out, but one of the most disturbing things I saw in my life was a post on VAST, by a highly intelligent scholar in a highly respected U.S. University who seriously suggested editing out all of the sexist statements from Prabhupada's books." (6.3)

"Mercifully, by Krishna's arrangement, the texts from December 1997 to April 1998 vanished in a COM system crash."

Now we humbly direct our gentle reader's attention to Section 6.4. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa's" version excludes a considerable length of text bearing correspondence between Krishna-kirti Dasa and Mother Madhusudani Radha dd. In the unedited text Krishna-kirti Dasa plainly described how she related to him:

"I am being viciously attacked by the Mad Radha and some slightly lighter shades of ISKCON liberalism on another conference."

"Here's a recent vituperative reply from Mad Radha regarding the use of the word 'Mataji'"

"Are you really that sexually agitated? No please don't answer that, I don't really want to know."

In this section we have shown three examples wherein "Ardhbuddhi Dasa" has cut and pasted GHQ texts to our disadvantage. Comparing the redactions to the originals, the reader will have noted three things:

1. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa's" rendering of those texts casts GHQ members as villains, whereas the original version shows the foibles of the purvapaksins .
2. "Ardhabuddhi Dasa's" versions are meant to hide the identity of someone.
3. That someone is the same person in each case: Mother Madhusudani Radha dd.

10. In a state of war

We would now request our gentle reader to view Section 3. As pointed out by Ameyatma Prabhu the militaristic tone that was sometimes used on GHQ initially was actually borrowed from ISKCON "militant" feminists. They are known to address one another with military titles, as can readily be seen in this letter from "Private Visakha" to "Generalji" (believed to be Mother Malati dd). This text was accidentally sent by "Private" Mother Visakha dd to Mother Sita Dasi dd, who then forwarded a copy to GHQ members. It was posted also on the (then) DOW forum for public consumption. We have deleted the mid-portion of the text. (It can still be retrieved from DMW.)

Please note how "Private Visakha" accuses Jivan Mukta Dasa of beating his wife, a typical ploy of feminists (to accuse all their opponents of being wife-abusers). What about abuse of the truth, as committed by "Ardhabuddhi Dasa" and the feminists per their obuscations of facts?

What is remarkable about "Private Visakha's" concern is that Mother Sita dd, the supposed possible target of Jivan Mukta's frustrations, is an ardent opponent of feminism. Together, this husband-and-wife team are a potent force against the feminist heresy.

Please also note a typical symptom of feminists is their approach of Srimati Radharani instead of Lord Krsna. We certainly hope this is not an abhorrence for males extending even to the spiritual level. Known to be integral to secular feminism is the prominent "goddesss cult," in which sakti is regarded as superior to purusa. So absorbed are they in identification with their female bodies, that they prefer to worship Sakti rather than Purusa. This is not Vaisnavism. While there is doubtlessly transcendentally perfect loving exchange between Sri Sri Radha-Krsna (embodiment of the profoundest theology), the unauthorized elevation of Srimati Radharani smacks of the "goddess cult" so often associated with militant feminists.

Letter COM:1652404 (159 lines) [W1]
From: Internet: Jivan Mukta Dasa <btb@georgian.net>
Date: 01-Sep-98 18:59
To: Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP [4101]
Comment: Text COM:1654038 by Shyamasundara ACBSP
Subject: ISKCON women calling themselves Generals and Privates
------------------------------------------------------------
Check out this response today from Visakha to Pracetana:

>Dearest Generalji,
>
>Dandavats. Srila Prabhupada, Srimati Radharani ki jaya!!
>
>My sincerest and deepest apologies for dragging you into the dialogue
>with Mr & Mrs Mukta. Please forgive me. I had asked TKG for his
>understanding of the GBC thing, and he sent me this copy of a letter
>that he'd early sent to Pranada:
>
>April 15,1992
>ISKCON Dallas
>
>Dear Mother Pranada,
>
>Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I beg to
>remembrances. I hope this meets you in the very best of health.
.
.
.
>Servant of the servant,
>Tamal Krishna Goswami
>
>P.S. I mentioned the list tiitled "G.B." in my book Servant of the
>Servant, page 148, published in 1984.
>
>It appears that TKG is no longer exactly sure what Srila Prabhupada said
>in the conversation. And therefore, in my book, we can politely discount
>the conversation in trying to determine Srila Prabhupada's desire re:
>women GBC's. Certainly we can totally discount it considering that a few
>months after this conversation he appointed two women GBC's. In any
>event, although Mr Mukta is fervently desirous of us all following
>Vaisnava etiquette, he is quite unable to follow it himself. I am now
>the brunt of his forceful anger, and I worry that he is taking out his
>frustrations on his wife physically.
>
>May Srimati Radharani guide and protect you in your journey back to Her.
>
>Please keep me informed as things evolve on your side. My thoughts are
>with you.
>
>much love, the private
>
(Text COM:1652404) -----------------------------------------

11. Sadhusangananda

"The group also included Sadhusangananda TP of ISKCON Boston, although due to his travel schedule, he was not very active initially."