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WORLD April 23, 1999 VNN3679 Aham Brahmasmi Newsletter #9 BY PRTHA DEVI DASI USA, Apr 23 (VNN) — A newsletter for the correct protection, not control, of women from abuse. To prove women equality, not sameness, according to Srila Prabhupada. No more control or abuse in the name of God or scripture! Your Servant, Prtha devi dasi. LETTERS Dear Pritha Mataji, pamoho, all glories to Srila Prabhupada! Thanks for your good service to Srila Prabhupada's Mission! That kali-chela governments worldwide are trying hard to discredit and dishearten woman in many countries, and not only in corrupt Iskcon, we see from this info bellow which shows a noble action undertaken by human people in order to help stopping abuse of poor Afghanistany women and female children. Otherwise, we think your newsletter should constantly encourage woman to become Vedic-like, exemplary persons, and to primarily try to advance in KC by means of developing proper Varnashrama and raising up and educating the first class children, future saintly kings and princesses on this planet. Other activities are also welcome, but these of Varnashrama/family development HDG Srila Prabhupada repeatedly outlined as Vedic woman's No.1 duties in Krishna consciousness. Unfortunately, modern disease of feminism and other schisms have taken many women (including Iskcon's) away from the proper path of KC. This is direct responsibility of the corrupt gbc leaders, who propped up premature renunciation and homosex, and as well as result coming from uncomplete realization of the men who suppose to take proper care of our beloved woman. The only way to start rectifying our offenses made towards woman is to cleanup the complete Iskcon top, now extremely corrupt, and to bring in some new, fresh and non-corrupt people, self-realized, non-envious, exemplary Prabhupadanugas. In this way we can be sure that Prabhupada's orders will be finally applied for real, and re-animation of now very weakened SP Mission - guaranteed. Thanks and Haribol! ys, Ganapati & Prabhupadanugas [Reply] Certainly women are still being abused and neglected in India, Afghanistan, etc., and something should be done about it. However, we are not trying to be Indians or Hindus. Prabhupada came here to start something better, something that India itself rejected. That is why he left and traveled over bumpy seas to America. First I would have to say that the women are already exemplary if they can put up with all the nonsense that has been dished out to them and still be here. I will have to take that a little further and point out that one of the problems is: the more women tried to be Vedic-like, submissive and what (some) men think is exemplary, the more they were abused or at least taken advantage of. Certainly they were not taken care of. Women don't need to be encouraged to set a good example. In most cases they are already a good devotee. Those women who are having difficulty, nine times out of ten, are not having problems due to lack of encouragement to be examplary but due either abuse/neglect, lack of opportunity or because they have been labeled and therefore disabled as *women.* The ladies of this movement have much to offer but have been repressed simply due to the body they are in. As a direct result the movement cannot grow in full. It could be twice as strong if women weren't oppressed but given opportunities to serve in whatever way THEY feel they can do best. No one knows a persons natural propensity better than themselves yet women are often forced to do the opposite of what comes natural to them. For some it may be the arts, children, the home and so on. However we should not leave out the godsisters who are better managers, organizers, leaders and so on. Nor should they be viewed as lesser. While some men may like to think a woman's natural propensity is always of the first, it can also be of the second. Next, Prabhupada did not come here to teach us to be Vedic but to teach us to be Krishna Conscious. Mayavadi's are Vedic, Impersonalists are Vedic, worshipers of Lord Shiva are Vedic. Of course if Vedic brings one toward Krishna than we want it. If it brings one away and gets one lost in what gives the appearance of Krishna Consciousness but is not, than we don't want that. That is called illusion. There are higher and lower Vedas. Prabhupada explained how less intelligent men become wrongly attracted by the flowery words of the Vedas. BG 2: 42-43 Thirdly, in regard to varnashrama-dharma, Prabhupada had a different understanding and definition than most devotees. I find many devotees are using it as a way to advocate the caste system to various degrees. Here is what Prabhupada has to say about it. "When He (Lord Chaitanya) met Sri Ramananda Raya on the banks of the Godavari, the varnashrama-dharma followed by Hindus was mentioned by the Lord. Sri Ramananda Raya said that by following the principles of varnashrama-dharma and four orders of human life, everyone could realize transcendence. In the opinion of the Lord, the system of varnashrama-dharma is superficial only and it has very little to do with the highest realization of spiritual values." Srimad Bhagavatam, Introduction. "the institution of varnashrama-dharma is used by selfish men to pose an artificial predominance over the weaker section." Srimad Bhagavatam 1:2:13 "The social institution known as varnasrama-dharma--the institution dividing society into four divisions of social life and four occupational divisions of caste--is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. " BG 16:1 - 3, Purport Prabhupada clearly points out in his purport "educational qualifications" and "not meant to divide human society according to *birth.*" He does not say nor encourage this concept of low birth, sudra or woman, but of education. And finally, often the concept ISKCON devotees have of a Vedic woman is that she should be weak and helpless. They feel threatened by a strong devotee woman. I am not saying your believe like this. It is just an opportunity for me to clear this up. We see Prabhupada himself did not treat the women in such ways but had them going out on the streets, talking to men, distributing books, or had them doing other such services like painting pictures, working at BBT , BTG, writing articles, etc. Prabhupada did not necessarily want to keep women in a *Vedic* slot. Bhibavati asked Srila Prabhupada: "Should I live like in the Vedic times, and simply serve my husband and child?" Srila Prabhupada replied: "No, you have a talent as a writer, you should write articles for newspapers and propagate Krishna Consciousness." (Bhibavati) "We are Vaishnava's. We are not concerned with male of female position in life. That is simply bodily concept of life. It is not spiritual. Whether one is male or female, it does not matter, simply chant Hare Krishna and follow the four regulative principles and your life will be perfect." (letter to Jennifer, 1975) Regarding your concern indicating that women should stay home and take care of their children, basically there is not a woman in this movement who does not take care of her child/children. However, there are many men who have been irresponsible fathers. Too often I hear this, how women should be reminded to take care of their chidden. Realistically they don't need a reminder at all. It is the men who need a reminder. A child needs a dad just as much as a mom! And when the women were leaving thier children it was because a temple authroity DEMANDED that she leave them behind, go out on sankirtana to distribute books (really, to make money!) all day, or do something in the temple for most of the day because children were considered maya. The women did not like this or want it, the men did. When it is the roof over your head and the food in your child's mouth, (& visa versa), you do it. However, women are fully capable of raising their children AND doing devotional service/ hold down a job if it is a choice and SHE is in charge of her children. The difference is, when womoen are in charge of the way their own children are raised, they will not do it the way the aurhorities do. Instead they will do it in a way so no harm, including psychological, comes to the child and even there is benefit. Not that women all have to go this root, merely that choice should not be taken away from them. They can do it however they want to. It is all Krishna Conscious. I myself stayed home with my children but I have no qualms with my godsisters if they want to become a corporate manager, care for thier children and are Krishna Conscious. That may scare some men, but it does not scare women as they know they CAN be Krishna Conscious and hold a nondevotee job. It is illusion to think that only married men can have a nondevotee job and be OK but not a woman. Anyone who is sincere can do it and it is not limited to what body they are in. As we can see by Prabhupada's above quote, he did not limit women to raising children or serving husband, but also to advance in Krishna Consciousness not Vedic consciousness. Otherwise we are really on the bodily concept, thinking woman should only do this or that, but man has so many more privledges.That is not spiritual. Strong devotee women must be made acceptable. There are examples in our scriptures. See the excerpt below from Satya devi dasi's essay, "FEMALE ASCETICS:" Much of this type of knowledge has been hidden from ISKCON devotees therefore it is not their fault that they have tried to put women in little slots for years. However, they need to take the time to learn otherwise. Women are equal to (not the same as) men in Krishna Consciousness. The idea that they should be weak, helpless, and won't make it without a man in their life are not Krishna Conscious teachings as we were tricked into believing, but the result of a conspiracy which went on in the early 70s. I remember this happening personally, and Jyotirmayi wrote a wonderful report about it. I publish a bit of her report each week. You can see it below. Some men have trouble surrendering to Prabhupada's teachings of women equality - not because of anything spiritual, as some think, but because it threatens their manhood. It is really the battle of the sexes and not about Krishna Consciousness at all. However a secure man will not feel he needs to keep a woman down in order to keep himself up. Hope this helps clear a few things up. Thank you. YS, Prtha dd Excerpts from: FEMALE ASCETICS by Satya devi dasi In the Mahabharata, Madhavi, the daughter of King Yayati, was given a boon that after giving birth to a child she would become a virgin again. Galava, a disciple of Vishvamitra, approached her father King Yayati for his help in obtaining special horses for his guru. King Yayati, who was once wealthy, was not able to help, but offered his maiden daughter, Madhavi, instead. Galava took Madhavi to three different kings with the offer that Madhavi would "provide" sons for them in exchange for the needed horses. After Galava had obtained the horses he needed, he then took Madhavi back to her father. King Yayati organized a svayamvara for her at a hermitage near the confluence of the Ganges and Jamuna. There was a gathering there of Snakes, Yakshas, men, birds, and deer, and the denizens of the mountains, trees, and woods. The forest teemed with the princes of diverse peoples and countries, and it was filled everywhere with Brahma-like seers. But when all the suitors were announced, the fair-complexioned woman passed by all of them and chose the forest as her bridegroom. Madhavi descended from the chariot, bowed to her relatives, then went to the holy forest and practiced austerities. (van Buitenen, v.3, p. 410 411) In the Ramayana, we have Somada, the virgin daughter of the nymph Urmila. In an ashrama, Somada cared for and ministered to the muni Chuli. She attended the great sage for a long time with undeviating faith and devotion. Her Guru was very pleased with her and offered to fulfill some desire of hers. She responded, 'O King of Kings, I desire to bear a son, resplendent with divine power, a worshiper of God and devoted to dharma. I have no husband, nor do I wish to be the wife of any, as I am a brahmacharini; therefore, by virtue of your Yoga, grant me a son produced by the power of your thought.' The divine sage was pleased to hear these words and granted her a son named Brahmadatta, by the power of her mind. Brahmadatta became King of Kampila and was as prosperous as Indra in heaven. (Shastri, v. 1, p. 70) Then there's the story of Vedavati of the Ramayana. In the Himalayan Forest, Ravana beheld a young girl, radiant as a goddess, wearing a black antelope skin and matted locks, leading the life of an ascetic. Seeing the youthful and lovely girl who was given over to austere practices, he was overcome by desire and inquired of her why she had adopted a life of mortifications ill fitted to her years. The young girl, radiant with beauty and rich in ascetic practices, having offered him the traditional hospitality, replied that many had approached her father for her hand but her father had chosen Vishnu to be her husband and would not permit her to marry any other. She was undergoing these severe mortifications to fulfill his will. Ravana tried to dissuade her from her resolve and invited her to be his consort in Lanka, slighting Vishnu in the process. Vedavati was offended and Ravana seized hold of her hair. In indignation, Vedavati cut off her hair with her hand, which had been transformed, into a sword. Burning with anger she kindled a fire to give up her life and said before she left, 'Soiled by your contact, O Vile Rakshasa, I do not desire to live and shall throw myself into the fire before your eyes. Since you have affronted me in the forest, I shall be reborn for your destruction. It is not possible for a woman to slay an evil man and, if I curse you, my penances will be rendered void; if however, I have ever given anything in charity or offered any sacrifice, may I be of immaculate birth and the noble daughter of a virtuous man.' So speaking, she threw herself into the fire that she had ignited, and straightway a rain of flowers fell. Vedavati is the daughter of Janaka and the consort of Rama. First she was born as Vedavati and then she was reborn in the family of the magnanimous Janaka as Sita for the destruction of Ravana. (Shastri, v. 3, 420-422) Sulabha, another ascetic of the Mahabharata, was the daughter of Rsi Pradhana. In the sacrifices of her ancestors, Indra used to come with Drona and others. No suitable husband could be obtained for her, and so she wandered over the earth alone, observing the practices of asceticism. Bhishma related this story in the Mahabharata between King Janaka (the father of Sita devi) and the female mendicant Sulabha. By her yogic power, Sulabha assumed a beautiful form and instantly went to Mithila, and, on pretense of begging alms, presented herself before the King, who was surrounded by his ministers and learned scholars. By yoga, she entered the king's consciousness. They conversed upon emancipation, Sankhya, and yoga. It is said that she dwelt this one night in his person like a mendicant in an empty house. (S. Sorensen, p. 657) These are just a few examples from the Mahabharata and the Ramayana of young, unmarried women, actively choosing to practice austerities instead choosing marriage. WHY ARE WE TOLERATING POLYGAMISTS? Report. While I hate to make a post about a godbrother, especially since I know him, it seems a necessity. I have thought about it quite a while. Yes, what he is propagating makes me angry but I had to get beyond that. Finally I realized that if it is not revealed than it is not compassion for him, and who knows what could happen if it is not nipped in the bud? It is always easier to tell on someone we don't know. I do not like doing this but it seems so far that most of ISKCON and Alachua is keeping this hush hush, and secrets are the cause of repeated wrong doings. Here is my post. At the Sunday feast a few weeks ago my husband learned from a reliable source that a 50 something year-old man we know (who shall remain nameless ...... for now) asked to marry all the girls in Laksmimoni's gurukula brahmacarini ashrama. She accepts girls from age 12-16. The man already has a wife and children. The devotee who told my husband about this has a daughter there. He commented that if this man went anywhere near his daughter he would give him a fist. I am glad he responded that way, but disappointed that it is only when trouble hits home that we are willing to get involved. We try to keep everything hush hush and sounding nice, but it really isn't nice at all. What would really be nice would be to hear of any justice that is resulting due to his disgraceful behavior, or is he getting away with it? I know if he lived next door to me I would phone the police and report him for stalking, going after underaged girls, and polygamy - after all it IS illegal. We have to stop thinking we are above the law for this or that reason. If anything Prabhupada instructed us to be good citicizens, not to think we can rewrite the law. Matter of fact, there are many area's which we have to stop thinking we are more advanced than we really are. I am disgusted with rascals who try to pass their lust off on God, guru and scripture. Of course, everyone has lust. However polygamists have abnormal amounts of lust and try to justify it as religious. That scares me. Or rather what scares me is that it goes unchecked by devotees, therefore it grows. I am not asking anyone to control him but they could take legal action to keep him away, similar to what they would do with a child molester. Some may say it is not *exactly* the same as child molestation since the girls are not children. Well, it runs a close second and they are still unwilling victims. It can become just as serious if left unchecked. (Will the girls act out when they are older? Something else? Will he import a few wives? Is that OK with us? Do we want guests, or ourselves, to see that at the temple? What if he keeps them at home? Will we tolerate that? Will we continue to ignore what this is doing to his children?) Although gurukula girls aren't children they are still unformed women, not fully adults. Maybe it now would fit in the category of some form of adult sexual abuse. Maybe a little of both. At least emotionally. I know of gurukuli's who feel they can't step foot in the temple anymore because they see the face of their abuser. It is too disturbing to see him getting away with the appearance of a good devotee. Similarly, why should these girls have to look at a man in the temple every day who they know would love to sleep with them?!!! Simply because we know they will not go for it does not make it acceptable nor sufficient protection. They should be able to live in a peaceful environment where they do not feel some older man is giving them the eye. While one may argue there will always be some man who lusts after them, "get use to it," the argument stands that: 1-Any man exhibiting or known for abnormal lust after girls too young for himself, or after too many women (polygamists) should be first be informed it is not acceptable AND will not be tolerated. Then if he persists, he should not be allowed to come to the temple. (I usually don't go for refusing someone access to the temple but in this case I will make an exception.) Protection requires work and involvement. It is time the children were protected instead of the adults who are of an exploitive nature. 2-This devotee is KNOWN for his obsession with polygamy and now, known for his interest with these gurukula girls. Any known polygamist must be dealt with strongly by temple authorities. Something should be done immediately. 3-The temple is in part, the home of these gurukula girls. They should be able to feel comfortable and safe. I know when I was a young teen if weird men lusted after me I could always go home and feel safe. The temple should not be used by such men as a pickup place for chicks, if you will pardon the expression. While it is one thing for single devotees of appropriate age to meet and do things the right way, or to make it more clear - a sane way, it is not appropriate for an older man to ask to marry a group of young girls! The girls should be able to feel comfortable when they go to the temple, and we all know that when living in the gurukula ashrama that the temple is somewhat home. They are there alot. In my opinion polygamists have an illness called sexual addiction (SA). This man is ruining his entire reputation because of it and doesn't even take care of the wife he has. She is my friend and she may decide to discontinue that, but this is a risk I will have to take since her husband is in such maya. Besides, it is illusion to think the children don't suffer when the father looses it. In addition it needs to be recognized that a common symptom of midlife crisis for men is an abnormal attraction to young girls. This definitely looks like he is going through midlife crisis. That does not make it acceptable. One CAN do something about it. Either way, SA or midlife crisis, it is an emotional problem which needs healing. Healing can't happen if it is ignored and many will suffer, not just him. Things manage to find a way to our doorstep. We have no idea what the future can result in if he is allowed to continue down this path. These girls probably see him as a dirty old man. All I know is, he better stay away from my daughter. I won't only give a fist. I will report him to the police. It is not doing him or the girls any favors by remaining silent. (Fortunately the daughter I have in Alachua is married, but her sister ISN'T going to visit for awhile.) Devotees who know something, please speak up! While such polygamists claim they are protecting women and doing society a favor, what they say does not match what they do. They do not run after the older, plain looking woman in their own age group. Polygamy is propagated by selfish and lusty men who like to claim they are saving women from becoming prostitutes (as if women just can't control themselves!), but in reality it is such men who can't control themselves. They are the prostitutes. They run after the shapely, pretty, young girls who will have no problem finding a husband. Basically, no woman has trouble finding a husband. That is an illusion polygamist wish to put us in. Every female, sooner or later gets married if that is what she wants. The few that don't, do not want marriage. Is it so hard to believe that some women want to remain brahmacarini yet we believe men can desire to remain brahmacari and are good devotees for it? Women too can have such a desire and they too are just as good of a devotee for it. Anyway, notice the ADULT brahmacarini ashrama was not approached for marriage by this man. While both are wrong, one is less of an offense than the other. Nevertheless, let us make sure to protect ALL the women taking shelter at our temples, gurukuli's or adults. Please do not misunderstand. I don't have a major problem with age. My rule of thumb is, if you could have bought this person into the world or close to it, than you should not be looking at them or thinking of them as potential spouse. If anything, you should think of and look at them as daughter. Someone of fathers age should not go after a girl of daughters age. Bas. It applies to women as well, though that happens less. Marriages in kali-yuga do better when the age gap is not too wide. I wish this devotee man well. He cannot get well if no one speaks about this and points out how he is wrong. He hides behind scripture to justify his maya, thinking he is as advanced as what he reads in ancient Vedic literatures and needs to realize that the pastimes of other ages do not apply to us in kali-yuga. Nor did Prabhupada advocate polygamy as this man has conveniently misunderstood. I hope and pray someone can yank him out of this illusion or that he wakes up himself. This is for his benefit also. However, if that can't be done, at least there should be some reaction for what he has attempted. Please, someone with information, write me so I may inform everyone else. It is not true that when we don't know won't hurt us. It is acutally the things we don't know that grow into nasty secrets and hurt us the worst. Part of keeping our society healthy is letting others know when those who have done something wrong are punished for it. Justice must be served. Otherwise some may think it is acceptable and do it at other temples. No more keeping such things hush hush. "While contemplating the object of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. >From anger complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool." BG 2:62-63 GHQ or those who are in agreement with them, do not spam my mail box. Anyone else may write. YS, Prtha dd "We recommend our students not to have illicit sex. We don't stop sex, but regulate. . . . What is the difficulty? No illicit sex means don't be cats and dogs. Be married man and have one wife, one husband, and be satisfied." Srila Prabhupada, 1971 Also see SB 10: 54, 55 (1977) *********************** It would be helpful for women and gurukuli's both, men also as well as the new devotee, to understand the history of the ladies in this movement ... what actually went on and the conspiracy behind it all. It effects everyone, to this day. Some of that can be unravled by finding out what happned. Therefore I have decided to post a report by Jyotirmayi, a little each time. Hope you like it. :-) WOMEN IN ISKCON IN PRABHUPADA'S TIMES By Jyotirmayi Devi Dasi HISTORICAL REPORT: WOMEN AS DANGEROUS FOR MEN - more of Jyotirmayi's report. "Many men in the movement have used various scriptural statements on women's faults to rebuke and humiliate them, hinder their service and advancement, or even try to drive them out of the movement. * When Srila Prabhupada first said in a class that for a man association with a woman is dangerous because she makes him loose control over his senses, the male devotees started acting very nastily with the women of that particular temple. The ladies expressed their pain to Prabhupada who then called in all the men and said: "I was talking of materialistic women, not of the women of the movement. These are angels." * Srila Prabhupada also said in another instance: "When we talk of women, we do not talk about those of our movement because by associating with these women, if they are Krishna Conscious, you will be liberated." (Madhavananda) * A disciple of Swami Narayana said to Srila Prabhupada: "My spiritual master said to avoid all women and to never go where there are women." Srila Prabhupada laughed and said: "That is impossible, there are women everywhere." Then, coming back to the temple and watching two women devotees bow down to him, he said: "By associating with these women, you will be purified." (Madhavananda) * In various occasions, brahmacaris complained to Srila Prabhupada that they were agitated by the presence of women in the temple, and Srila Prabhupada replied that if they could not restrain their senses, they should go live alone in the forest. * "regarding the disturbance made by the women devotees, they are also living beings. They also come to Krishna. So consciously I cannot deny them. If our male members, the brahmacaris and sanyasis, if they become steady in Krishna Consciousness, there is not problem. It is the duty of the male members to be very steady and cautious." (letter to Gargamuni Swami, 1975) CONTINUED NEXT ISSUE Comment on this Story | Contact VNN regarding this Story
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