{"id":1118,"date":"2013-07-17T23:24:05","date_gmt":"2013-07-18T03:24:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/vnn.org\/vaisnava-news\/?p=1118"},"modified":"2013-07-17T23:24:35","modified_gmt":"2013-07-18T03:24:35","slug":"avinoda-vada","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/vaishnava-news-network.org\/vaisnava-news\/avinoda-vada\/","title":{"rendered":"Avinoda-v\u0101da"},"content":{"rendered":"

July 18, 2013 (VNN) by\u00a0Advaita Das<\/p>\n

\"brahma\"<\/a>Pandora\u2019s box produces ever-new j\u012bva-tattva speculations \u2013 we had fall-v\u0101da, envy-v\u0101da, dream-v\u0101da, fall from ta\u1e6dastha-v\u0101da (will be discussed later) and first-become-lord-Brahm\u0101-v\u0101da. Now there is a new siddh\u0101nta \u2013 boredom-v\u0101da.<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nOne devotee writes: By the way, K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a creates and oversees physical worlds as He has nothing to do, so says the famous commentary on verse 2.1.33 of \u201cSr\u012b Vedanta-sutra.\u201d This commentary states that \u015ar\u012b K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a is like bored, very rich Prince, who plays a variety of games simply because of boredom, nothing to do and just to have fun. This commentary was written for the first time by \u015ar\u012b \u015ar\u012bmad R\u0101m\u0101nuja \u0101c\u0101rya and all the Vai\u1e63\u1e47ava-\u0101c\u0101ryas later in their comments just repeated this comment, because it is a genius and explains all two sentences. What do you think?<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nI do not know of such comments. I have only an English rendering of R\u0101m\u0101nuja\u2019s commentary here by George Thibaut, whoever that may be. There it says in 2.1.33 \u2013
\n\u201cWe see in ordinary life how some great king, ruling this earth with its seven dv\u012bpas, and possessing perfect strength, valour, and so on, has a game at balls, or the like, from no other motive than to amuse himself; hence there is no objection to the view that sport only is the motive prompting Brahman to the creation, sustentation, and destruction of this world which is easily fashioned by his mere will.\u201d
\nEven if this translation is correct, it does not mention boredom. Anyway we are not R\u0101m\u0101nujaites. Our Ved\u0101nta Bh\u0101\u1e63ya is by Baladeva Vidy\u0101bh\u016b\u1e63a\u1e47a.\u201d<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\n\u201cHe claims that all \u0101c\u0101ryas repeated it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nThe jivasare an\u0101di, beginningless \u2013 there is no reason for their existence or their presence in the material world and K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a is never bored as He is \u0101nanda ghana vigraha, the embodiment of bliss.\u201d<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nI quote the p\u016brva-pak\u1e63a- \u201cAbout a month ago I wrote that the j\u012bva in any case does not fall from the spiritual world or goes out of ta\u1e6dastha-\u015bakti (allegedly while choosing where to go). A correct theory, which is supported by the Upani\u1e63ads and the majority of the Vai\u1e63\u1e47ava Sampradaya is, that \u015ar\u012b K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a Himself puts the j\u012bva in the material world and decides for himself at what point to release thej\u012bva!<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nMajority? No Vedic philosopher says that. No Vedic guru or samprad\u0101ya speaks fall v\u0101da, putting in the material world-v\u0101da, envy-v\u0101da, or dream-v\u0101da. Where is the evidence for that? There are so many \u015blokas in \u015ar\u012bmad Bh\u0101gavata that say an\u0101dy avidy\u0101, the j\u012bvas\u2019 ignorance is beginningless, and the Brahma S\u016btra says an\u0101di karma. Did K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a put us here, for what reason then? And when? This morning at 3? 1967? Ask his evidence.<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\n\u201cBecause of boredom, nothing to do and just to have fun\u2019<\/p>\n

Advaita Das<\/p>\n

s\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e6dy-\u0101dika\u1e41 harir naiva prayojanam apek\u1e63ya tu |
\nkurute keval\u0101nand\u0101d yath\u0101 mattasya nartanam ||
\np\u016br\u1e47\u0101nandasya tasyeha prayojana-mati\u1e25 kuta\u1e25 |
\nmukt\u0101 avy\u0101pta-k\u0101m\u0101\u1e25 syu\u1e25 kim ut\u0101sy akhil\u0101tmana\u1e25<\/p>\n

This is what is in Baladeva\u2019s \u1e6d\u012bk\u0101 of the s\u016btra VS 2.1.33. It means \u2013
\n\u201cHari has no purpose in his creation. He is doing it for fun only like the dancing of a crazy man. How can there be any purpose in the embodiment of full bliss?\u201d<\/p>\n

That is not the same as being bored. If He is full bliss how can He be bored? But remember one thing \u2013 this is not an historical fact. Just as the Kaustubha-gem was not really gotten at the samudra manthan \u2013 it is eternally K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a\u2019s also before churning of the milk ocean. So there is no time frame in the creation. Otherwise Bhagavad G\u012bt\u0101\u2019s verse 2.12 would be false, and all the an\u0101dy avdiy\u0101 verses in the \u015b\u0101stras and their commentaries too.\u201d<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nIt is also mentioned in Bhagavat Sandarbha –
\nhttp:\/\/fiindolo.sub.uni-goettingen.de\/gretil\/1\u032esanskr\/4\u032erellit\/vaisn\/ss2\u032ebhgu.htm<\/p>\n

What J\u012bva Gosw\u0101m\u012b says in in the Sandarbhas about this verse?<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nIt is in Bhagavat Sandarbha paragraph 35 \u2013
\nN\u0101r\u0101ya\u1e47a-sa\u1e41hit\u0101 also states:<\/p>\n

\u201cLord Hari performs actions, such as creation, without any specific purpose. He does so purely out of pleasure, just as an intoxicated man dances. Since He is completely blissful, what purpose does He have to achieve from creation? If even liberated souls delight in the Self alone, how much more must this be so for the Lord, the Supreme Soul of all?\u201d<\/p>\n

By the example of a dancing madman (implying deficiency or absence of awareness), one should not think that the Lord is something other than omniscient. The example is relevant in this sense alone, that, owing to His excessive internal bliss, He performs pastimes without having any particular purpose to accomplish. If to try and circumvent the problem with this example, we suggest instead the example of (the Lord\u2019s pastimes occurring naturally, like) inhaling and exhaling, the same defect (absence of awareness being attributed to the Lord) still presents itself, in the case of breathing during deep sleep. Therefore, the limitations of these examples aside, the real point to be noted is that the Lord\u2019s pastimes are characterized exclusively as natural and spontaneous manifestations of the bliss inherent in His essential nature. The \u015aruti also declares, \u201cThis (i.e., the act of creation, etc.) is the nature of the Lord. What yearning can there be in one whose desires are naturally and completely fulfilled?\u201d (M\u0101\u1e47\u1e0d\u016bkya-k\u0101rik\u0101 1.9).<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nna conmatta-d\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e6d\u0101nten\u0101sarvaj\u1e63atva prasa\u1e63jayitavyam | svar\u016bp\u0101nandodreke\u1e47a sva-prayojanam ananusandh\u0101yaiva l\u012bl\u0101yate ity etad a\u1e43\u015benaiva sv\u012bk\u0101r\u0101t | ucchv\u0101sa-pra\u015bv\u0101sa-d\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e6d\u0101nte\u2019pi su\u1e63upty-\u0101dau tad-do\u1e63\u0101p\u0101t\u0101t | tasm\u0101t svar\u016bp\u0101nanda-sv\u0101bh\u0101vikyena tal-l\u012bl\u0101<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nThe last text is J\u012bva Gosw\u0101m\u012b\u2019s.<\/p>\n

\u201cIf the Lord\u2019s direct engagements, such as the act of glancing at material nature, are accepted as His pastimes, then the deeds He performs in Vaiku\u1e47\u1e6dha are surely all the more so. The wives of the K\u0101liya serpent prayed: \u201cOur obeisances unto You, who always enjoy in Your own nature\u201d (avy\u0101k\u1e5bta-vih\u0101r\u0101ya, SB 10.16.47). Therefore, even liberated sages, like \u015ar\u012b \u015auka, hear His pastimes with total absorption and delight (as shown in the above-quoted verse, SB 12.12.69, ajita-rucira-l\u012bl\u0101k\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e6da-s\u0101ra\u1e25). \u201c<\/p>\n

I think it is clear K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a is not \u2018bored\u2019. This devotee sees things that are not there. There is some text before too, before the N\u0101r\u0101ya\u1e47a-Sa\u1e41hit\u0101 quote, just to get the whole context clear –<\/p>\n

\u201cSimilarly, what distinguishes the Lord\u2019s actions from ordinary acts is that they are exclusively manifestations of His natural bliss. As the Brahma-s\u016btra states, \u201cThe actions of the Lord, such as creation, are a play, like the pleasurable deeds people enact\u201d (VS 2.1.33). The Tattva-v\u0101d\u012b [Madhv\u0101c\u0101rya] has explained this s\u016btra, \u201cThe Lord creates in the same way that an intoxicated man dances out of bliss, and not to achieve anything.\u201d<\/p>\n

By the way you see here that J\u012bva Gosw\u0101m\u012b calls Madhv\u0101c\u0101rya \u2018the tattva-v\u0101d\u012b\u2019 not \u2018the head of our samprad\u0101ya\u2019. Caitanya Carit\u0101m\u1e5bta described Mah\u0101prabhu smashing the tattva-v\u0101d\u012bs who are not a branch of Madhva samprad\u0101ya but Madhva samprad\u0101ya proper. J\u012bva Gosw\u0101m\u012b says vy\u0101khy\u0101ta\u1e41 ca tattva-v\u0101dibhi\u1e25, yath\u0101, \u2018the tattva v\u0101di explains\u201d when he quotes Madhva. So how can Madhv\u0101c\u0101rya create a branch of his OWN samprad\u0101ya and be called a member of his own branch?<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nThat it is just fun of lord. But it is quite strange that because of that fun, j\u012bvassuffer so much.\u201d<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nThat is due to bodily consciousness. The soul does not suffer. But again, this is all an\u0101di \u2013 never forget this. There is no beginning and thus also no cause. This is not an historical story. It is timeless \u2013 an\u0101di bahirmukha. It is not that we were once in the spiritual sky and K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a just sent us away or so.\u201d<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nBut without R\u0101dhik\u0101, K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a feels bored, or not?<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nNo, because the separation is a thrill and the tricks He plans to meet her too. This all takes place on the topmost level of transcendental bliss called mah\u0101bh\u0101va.<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nWhen he is bored from behavior of Rukmi\u1e47\u012b, he teases her meek humble behaviour \u2013 tries to make her angry\u2026.<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nThe Bh\u0101gavat (10.60) does not say He is bored \u2013 he just enjoys her m\u0101na not out of boredom. vibhur api kalayann sad\u0101pi v\u1e5bddhi \u2013 K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a is always full but his fullness always increases (D\u0101na Keli Kaumud\u012b 1)<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar Das
\nThat means \u201cIf He is always full, how He can be bored?\u201d<\/p>\n

Advaita Das
\nYes. If s\u0101dhakas feel always thrilled in worshipping Him how can He Himself be bored? Boredom-v\u0101da is like fall-v\u0101da \u2013 thinking there is material imperfection in spiritual sky. There is no evidence for this in \u015b\u0101stra, nor does it make any sense (yukti).<\/p>\n

D\u0101modar D\u0101s
\nBoredom is not mentioned among the vyabhic\u0101r\u012b bh\u0101vas in Bhakti Ras\u0101m\u1e5bta Sindhu (2.4.4-6) either.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

July 18, 2013 (VNN) by\u00a0Advaita Das Pandora\u2019s box produces ever-new j\u012bva-tattva speculations \u2013 we had fall-v\u0101da, envy-v\u0101da, dream-v\u0101da, fall from ta\u1e6dastha-v\u0101da (will be discussed later) and first-become-lord-Brahm\u0101-v\u0101da. Now there is … Read More<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":1121,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"iawp_total_views":2,"footnotes":"","_wp_rev_ctl_limit":""},"categories":[15,7],"tags":[441],"class_list":["post-1118","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured","category-philosophy-commentary","tag-jiva-tattva","entry"],"yoast_head":"\nAvinoda-v\u0101da - VNN - Vaishnava News Network<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/vaishnava-news-network.org\/vaisnava-news\/avinoda-vada\/\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"VNN Staff\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"VNN Staff\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/697219dd9c21dd216a0ea9f7de1cc9c9\"},\"headline\":\"Avinoda-v\u0101da\",\"datePublished\":\"2013-07-18T03:24:05+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-07-18T03:24:35+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1607,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2013\\\/07\\\/brahma-f.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"j\u012bva-tattva\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Featured\",\"PHILOSOPHY & COMMENTARY\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/vaishnava-news-network.org\\\/vaisnava-news\\\/avinoda-vada\\\/\",\"name\":\"Avinoda-v\u0101da - 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