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January 17, 1999   VNN2871   See Related VNN Stories

Raghu's Response To Janavi (Part I)

BY RAGUNATHA DASA

USA, Jan 17 (VNN) — Haribol PADA I've been reading PADA's postings on my essay, Prabhupada's Magic Part 1 as well as Puranjana's world famous editorials and Jahnavi's very moving follow- up. The essay has generated about 40 responses for which I am replying or would have responded to you sooner. I would like to share these letters with you since PADA's responses have been only correctional in nature and so failing to fully represent the complete picture of the devotees reactions to it - overwhelmingly positive. Part of the reason for PAdA's dissatisfaction maybe that neither - Purajana or Jahanavi - have read the 2nd part of the essay which I believe makes the point that both were trying to make.

In a nut shell, I believe Puranjana was saying we have to correct the abuses. No disagreement there. We just have varying methods. His advice, reform can only be had by smashing ISKCON's guru system which is nothing short of throwing out all the movements leaders and introducing the Ritvik system. He felt that I was not recognizing their efforts or the abuses they were also subjected to.

The point of the essay was that what ever one wants to accomplish weather reform, justice, or some other preaching project, will automatically be accomplished by simply honoring the individual first and foremost. I offered examples of how others gave issues and projects first priority over concern to the individual. My examples showed these tendencies - overtly or subtly - in leaders, teachers as well as many reformers (from ritviks and Iskcon, to guru- kula and childcare) and therefore all proved less effective as our own simple efforts with the gurukula reunions and newsletters - past abuses exposed, persecuting teachers as well as re-igniting our spiritual lives etc

Jahanavi seem to say I had failed to recognize the sincerity and motives, "agendas," of the devotees involved with the childcare reforms of our movement or the value of the Children of Krsna's work. She also stated that she disagreed with me on a number of "points" but then failed to give any specifics but three - who raised the $ (Sridhar vs. Anutama) and that no threats against ISKCON were made at the meeting. I have the video tape of the event which I would be happy to give a transcription of wherein Krsna Avatar concludes with, "we will take maters into our own hands" and that they will "do something" - meaning law suite. As for the fundraising, Anutama told me personally of his plans for starting the program months before the meeting and said he therefore helped to orchestrate the guru-kulis presentation with the intent of stirring the GBC into action - donating $. As for the 3rd contested claim wherein I say Svavasa has gone unrecognized by youth programs, please consider this. Prabhupada's Magic was written and sent out to members of the Child protection agency about two months ago as director of KOC - Sanatana's email below confirms dated 11/23/99. I simply did not feature it publicly upon request from the ISKCON Communications Journal who wanted to be the first to print it. Did my essay bring it to their attention leading them to feature it in "this months newsletter" 12/99. You decide. At least, it had not been mentioned at the time of the writing of the essay. Jhanavi may very well be the one behind on the facts. However, her concerns and issues are legitimate and the stories of the work that Children of Krsna is doing is as moving as it is important. Thank you.

In both Janavi and Puranjana's case, the main concerns are answered in the 2nd part of the Prabhupada Magic essay. The closing paragraph concludes with resounding praise of all the devotees involved in our childcare. I believe that reading this will help pacify Jahnavi and hopefully clarify for Purajana the point I was raising in all the examples given from the child care programs to the rikvik efforts. Again, this point - lets not forget the individual in the name of some cause or issue. Prabhupada didn't and that was his Magic as my own experience with him demonstrates. The essay was so long so had to be sent it in two parts leaving VNN posting the 2nd transmission 2 days later. So I will include it here. The 2nd part meanwhile got posted on Chakras com. conference by mistake so some devotees read one part while others the 2nd. So some are responding to the 1st parts "really letting us have it" as Kavichandra put it while others to the Prabhupada stories of the 2nd part.

Before I do, let me give one last example of how empowering it is to start with the premise of the individual first and working our way from there. Now in Purajana's case, he says we must start by attacking the "abusers" etc. Here's a consideration though. Check this out.

Did you realize that there are presently more "devotees" living outside then "in" ISKCON temples. Maybe 95% more. There was 6,000 to 8,000 Prabhupada disciples. Hardly more then a couple hundred still live in the temples. This does not account for disciples of other ISKCON guru's and the movements other supporters. Combined, they also represent 90% more resources and $$$$ and experience - materially and devotionally. The combined wealth of the devotees living "outside" the movement runs into the tens of millions of dollars. Yet, are we doing 90% more preaching? Why not? Have we given too much attention - authority and influence - to the GBC leadership by focusing on what they are not doing rather then on what we can. If we are serious about helping to correct the problems, we have 90% of all devotees to work with unhindered by the GBC. Lets just assume all the temples and ISKCON leadership disappeared today and all we were left with was each other. What would we do?

Do you see why the guru-kula newsletters and reunions exploded, because we stopped giving the attention - power - over to the GBC by simply looking to our own peers at what we could between ourselves. In short, we created our own community. And so can the older devotees. Beginning examples of this would be the Prabhupada Festival and the World Enlightenment Day to the meetings in Alachua and LA. But this is only scratching the surface. Start recognizing each other - your services and struggles etc and you will automatically begin to see your over all effect - a grand community of devotees. VNN for example is beginning to touch upon this, but is not fully tapping its potential which will be had when its focus is entirely on recognizing the devotees for their best - as our newsletters did for the guru-kulis. Then we will discover our full beauty, strengths, resources, potentials and common ground, goals and priorities.

In closing, here are some examples of the potentials to be uncovered. Imagine if we had a resource - Internet - guide that printed the highlights of devotees that held regular programs in their homes whether worshiping the deity, to holding kirtans and offering prasadam feast. On this small Island of Hawaii, we have 20 devotees that have hosted such an event at some point. Multiply that by every town and village wherein a devotee lives and low and behold we have formally recognized and empowered thousands of new preaching centers and devotees. The same goes with harinam or those attempting farming projects, restaurants, guru-kula's - individual home-study programs included again totaling thousands of parents and kids. How inspiring would it be to highlight every year all the Janmastami festivals around the world along with the Ratha-yatras, food for life programs, or just listing all those chanting Hare Krsna regularly, etc. What if every devotee living outside where to simply pledge to distribute prasadam even just one day a year or book distribution - 1 book a day, 1 a week or one a month or even on just one day a year. Hundreds of thousands of more books would be distributed. How about workshops on child-raising or career counseling for breaking into the entertainment field or business development. We have devotees highly successful - dozens, even thousands - that can provide a great deal information and otherwise. This kind of community would automatically lead to each and every reform one could ever hope for just as the guru-kula newsletter did for childcare. We will uncover these potentials and form into such groups once we have begun to identify the best of each other as the reunions and newsletters did for the guru-kulis. The Rikvik issue is more about reforming the GBC then honoring the individual devotees or "putting Prabhupada in the center" therefore its application is still does not have the broadest appeal. Once you have created this sense of community, we can accommodate each others philosophical differences - though not abuses. Here lies the answer to our problems - Prabhupada's Magic - and our future.

The following are about a 3rd of all the letter received letters. I will send a copy of the Prabhupada Magic II essay later.

Date: 1/13/99
From: pchat@bcgrizzly.com (Peter Chatterton)
To: Anudasa@aol.com

Dear Ragunatha prabhu, Dandavats and Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

My name is Bahudak das and I had two sons in gurukula Bhakta dasa also known as GPD ( Gurupada das) and Kunjabehari das. Do you know them ? I was much gratified to read your two articles and would like to commend your courage and fairness to both reveal the extent of the abuses and yet point out Prabhupada's kindness. I left the movement in disgust in 1987 mostly due to the stonewalling I encountered from Jagadisha and others when they were confronted by reports of abuse. I had left the temple in a physical sense in 1986 and soon after my eldest daughter Devaki revealed to us that Mandali had told her he was molested by Sastra dasa who was her husband at that time. We advised her to come home which she did and in support of her both Kunja and Bhakta das spoke of Sastra's molestations of them. Both Kunja and Mandali gave testimony to the police and Sastra was charged and convicted and jailed for a short time. However, when I brought reports of other abuse that the boys told me of there was no action or acknowledgement from Jagadisha. I ended up going on national television in Canada to denounce the movement as I was disgusted at the refusal to deal with molesters and sadists who were still active in Vancouver.

For many years our whole family completely rejected Krishna Consciousness as a bad and tragic experience. I have come to a more balanced viewpoint myself as I began to see attempts being made to deal with the past abuse and I began to remember that Prabhupada was kind to the children and what happened to them was in large part not his fault. I did not realize that you were so instrumental in getting the truth out. Thank you very much. I have the greatest respect for you for this.

I am going to forward your two messages to my son Jake ( Bhakta dasa) and hopefully he will remember you and be interested to converse with you. Were you known by another name as a child?

thanks again,
Bahudak dasa.

Subj: Part 1
Date: 1/13/99
From: Kavicandra.Swami@com.bbt.se (COM: Kavicandra Swami (GBC Japan))

Thank you for really letting us have it.

I was very grateful for your newsletter [although I will admit that at times I questioned your motive, sorry for that], because previously I never knew what went on in the Gurukulas. I feel guilty for that because I could see that teachers like Raghunatha [the BIG] and the weird one with the long kurtas were unsavory characters, I never really looked into the matter.

Of course I was a small timer in the early days, and not a "big leader".

When SriRam prabhu made me a member of the Board of Education our first few years work was to try to make some provision for punishing and removing child abusers from ISKCON. I think that most of the members of the board were sincere in that effort, although there was some opposition from some sections of the GBC and from the Vrndavana Gurukula. When did, under strong protest from Vrndavan, ban corporal punishment. It seems like there are few cases of abuse in the schools now, of course the schools are less and smaller. I don't think there is organized and institutional abuse, as there was in the future. What upset me most about Burke's paper was that he seemed to accept that Srila Prabhupada knew what was going on, and did nothing about it. You did address that very nicely.

But it was from your eposes {ex po zays}that we began to understand why the youth were like they were. I can remember how shocked Birbahu Prabhu was when he read them. But even after that it took time before we could get testimonies from the youth. Now we can understand their fears.

There are some confusing points in your presentation. In part one your condemn Manu Prabhu, and apparently Anutamma Prabhu, but at the end you glorify them. I suppose that there is some explanation for that.

Please forgive me for whatever neglect I have committed.

Hoping this meets you in the best of health
Your Servant,
Kavicandra Swami

Dear Kavichandra

Your letter is important for the devotees to hear because it shows how devotees such as yourself in positions to correct the situation where both somewhat stonewalled as well as unsure where to begin.

As for 2nd guessing my motives that is fair, but the info. should have taken priority and as you said, it still took time to figure out where to begin and respond.

The "criticism" of Anutama and Manu has to do with the general sceptism among the guru-kulis with their initial efforts and my closing statements were about their over all performance.

Thank you for your recognition of my early efforts and hope that you found this last piece more a overview history then a condemnation.

Raghu

Subj: Prabhupada's Magic
Date: 1/14/99
From: mario1@gate.net (Mario Pigna aka Madhava Asraya Dasa)

All Glories to Srila Parbhupada All Glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga

Dear Raghunatha Prabhu;

Please accept my respect, dhandavad pranava. After reading the open letter you wrote recounting your experiences and realizations in relation to Srila Prabhupa, I felt obligated to write this short letter. I felt motivated with the great service that you have done to others by clarifying some misconceptions that the devotees have about the transcendental position of Prabhupada. Very often we face the sorrow reality that the leaders of ISKCON have created in what respect to the proper treatment of women and children. They hide then self behind what you properly call "Their Translation" of Srila Prabhupada's transcendental instructions. I would also want to thank you for sharing your personal encounters you had the opportunity to have with Srila Prabhupada by the Divine Grace of Sri Sri Nitai Gaura.

You mention in your open letter "My faith in the Child Protection Agency is only to the extent that Dira Govinda and Yasoda remain to run it. Their commitment to our well being seems solid if not greater then their loyalties to the movements political concerns.." This is the most important point to be address not only on the Gurukula issue but in all the rest of the problems we are facing within the ISKCON institution. Any individual that compromise their commitment to server the vaishnavas and humanity at large with their political agendas should be divested of their position and ,in this way not be allowed to affect the life of others.

Regretfully, since Srila Prabhupada's departure this has been the way the institution has been manage, the so call spiritual leaders had allow to transgressed the devotees well been by prioritizing the solidification of their position of power. We should never loose the understanding that ISKCON is a tool that Srila Prabhupada manifested to serve his dear Gurudeva and to allow us to serve him; ISKCON in it self is not the goal. If the tool is properly handle by a person or persons that with pure detachment are only concern with the well been of the fallen souls. then it could be of service. If in the other hand, a group of hooligans miss used it and throughout it they transgress the basic principles of humanity and perform the greatest miss service to Srila Prabhupada, we should reject it.

We have two choices, either we work within ISKCON to remove the white spots of leper or we commit our life to just surrender to Sri Krsna as per his instruction abandoning all type of religion and sincerely following the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and our preceptors. At first the first choice should be consider the most important one because Prabhupada want us to accomplish this, but we should not loose sight that any over endeavor that contaminate our spiritual progress should be rejected. If ISKCON institution become a new institutionalize religion we have no choice other than reject it. We are not Srila Prabhupada and Prabhupada is not ISKCON. We should never forget that ISKCON is a by product of Srila Prabhupada's vani and what we are obligate to serve is his vani. By serving Srila Prabhupada's vani we serve his mission even if the name ISKCON is not there, for this we have Srila Prabhupada's own example.

The spirit of Prabhupada's ISKCON will be always with those devotees like you that have the proper disposition to serve others like he show us. Not with those that legally hold some material papers that confer to then the power of holding money and marvel, that ISKCON I personally do not feel motivated to serve.

Prabhu, once again I want to thank you for sharing your inspiration and allowing us to associate with Srila Prabhupada trough your own association and remembrance.

Yours in the service of Sri Sri Gur and Gauranga

Madhava Asraya Dasa

Dear Madhava Sraya,
well said. Thank you. Some devotees may try to argue the point that ISKCON is not Prabhupada and vice versa. I plan to share your letter with others to discuss with you. Thank you for your support. PS did you read the 1st part of the two part series?

Subj: magic
Date: 1/14/99
From: danavir@icanect.net (Marvin Sarria)

Pamho, agtsp

Hare Krsna Prabhu

are you Ragunatha from LA? well, I know that you do not remember me since we did not have a friendship. Anyway, regarding your comments about Srila Prabhupada, I did not know him but by reading his books I can feel his energy, love, affection, and above all his complete care towards humanity and specially towards all Sri Krsna's Devotees.

Thank you for writing about Srila Prabhupada, and I am sorry for all the suffering Guru-Kulis like you endure at the hands of ignorant devotees.

Your servant

Madhu-ha das
HDG

Subj: Re: magic
Date: 1/14/99
To: danavir@icanect.net

Dear Madhuha
Thank you. We know each other through Prabhuapda as step children know each other through their parents, but we call it god-brothers. Howdy. There's Prabhupada in his books and then there is Prabhupada reflected in our hearts as he has touched them as the essay's portrayed.Both are powerful and reveal Prabhupada. Unless of course this is Madhuha with the festival of India in which case, I 'm your fan and admirer as well. Haribol Prabhu. I m glad you liked the essay. Raghu

Subj: Re: (no subject)
Date: 1/14/99
From: Vipramukhya.Swami@com.bbt.se (COM: Vipramukhya Swami (TP Bhaktivedanta Manor -

> Maharaj,
>
> I've just looked over Chakra again and its just so exciting so see this in
> print. It really is like seeing your work in print. It''s just really
> rewarding for a writer. Thank you I've recieved about 40 responses so far.
> Should I share the best of this correspondence with your readers. It is
> very revealing and moving. Raghu

Remember, we still have to print part II!

Yes. Please share the letters with us and we may print some of them, but send all of it to news@chakra.org. I will be traveling soon and won't be available.

CHAKRA is an instrument to help ISKCON and devotees, whereas it seems VNN and others want to hurt ISKCON. It isn't harmful for ISKCON to face difficult facts and own up to history as long as our objective is to build a better movement for Srila Prabhupada's pleasure.

Thank you for being who you are!

Your servant,
Vipramukhya Swami

Subj: Prabhupada's Magic - 2 of 2
Date: 1/14/99 5:42:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Hrdaya.Caitanya.SDG@com.bbt.se (COM: Hrdaya Caitanya (das) SDG (TP Radhadesh - B))

Dear Anudasa prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Unfortunately I don't know you, but I like to express that I was very much touched by your letter because it gives us a real understanding of Srila Prabhupada's greatness and it gives us an impetus to make a serious effort to care for our dependants in the first place and for everybody in the broader sence.

My son, who is very dear to me, is since september last year in the Mayapur Gurukula.

Please keep giving this kind of information to the devotees.

Your servant,
Hrdaya Caitanya das

Dear Hrdaya caitanya
Thank you. will you also please keep a very tight eye on both your boy and the guru-kula and keep us a breast with quarterly reports. Raghu

Subj:
Date: 1/14/99 2:25:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: paya@proaxis.com (Paya N. Gottfried)
To: Anudasa@aol.com

Raghu:
Just read your part 2 on vnn. Tears again, my friend. Thank you. Papaharini

Dear Pap,
you of all people - crying. Youve seen it all, heard it all and this moved you so. Thank you. This is the highest complement and a testiment that Prabhupada can still move us even to this day. Raghu

Subj: A special gift
Date: 1/12/99 12:41:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Ijyadasa

Dear Raghunatha Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I just read, with great delight and with tears, your very moving story of Vrndavana gurukula and the Magic of Srila Prabhupada. (I received this via email from wlg@cofs.com, who regularly sends bits of nectar). It is this kind of work that demonstrates a very special and unique gift. This is great stuff!! I just wanted you to know that I concur with your statement regarding Dhira Govinda's recognition of your contributions to the 2nd generation.

In fact, I would very much like to use this piece for our very first newsletter, and I'd like to know if you would let me use it. The newsletter is due to come out by March 1st, if not earlier. If you give me permission, I will run it by Dhira Govinda.

Keep on writing prabhu.

Sincerely,

Your servant,
Ijya dasa

Dear Ijya
It is with great pleasure that you use this piece. For your info. this is simply the conclusion - 2nd half - of an essay called Prabhupada's magic which I will also inclose for you.

You should know that this is only possible because of this computer. This computer has been essential for my writing and has changed my life by finally giving me the wings to fly with my writings. Without it, I would never have written this and so many other things I'm now working on. This is what your $1,200 bought me and you - this essay. (Ijya works with the Child Protection Agency) Your organization and efforts have been a multiplier to me and the movement at large. Thank you so much from me and everyone who is moved by this essay.

Raghu

Subj: Hari bol Raghunatha
Date: 1/12/99 2:18:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Parijata2
To: Anudasa

Hari bol. I just read your letter, SP built a whole school to meet the personal preferences of 5 young boys, with great pleasure. If you have a mailing list, I would love to be on it. By the way, I am Prtha, Vrinda's mother.

YS,
Prtha dd

Subj: Re: Hari bol Raghunatha Date: 1/12/99 5:36:13 PM Pacific Standard Time From: Parijata2 To: Anudasa

In a message dated 1/12/99 8:05:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, Anudasa writes:

<< thank you. Its a wonderful surprise to hear from you again. <

:)

>>Give my regards to Vrinda.<<

OK

>>Where is she now? <<

At Nara's house. :) Her father is Bhokta, brother is Buggy or Bhagavan, and sister is Sukhi. You might know them, not sure.

>>Please give her my regards.<<

OK.

>>> Tell her to write me.<<

She won't touch a computer with a ten foot pole. !! I am trying to get her over that, since she might be able to get a job if she can type. I think the money will influence her, but otherwise, she hates computers.

>> I willl also send you a copy of the 1st part of this essay called Prabhupada's Magic.<<

OK. I would like to see it. Isa dasa sent some to IWC and it is very nice. I am glad someone is writing these things. May I post it on the Hare Krishna message board on aol?

By the way, your mother is on IWC. :)

>> I'm ready to start a newsletter but having some trouble with the mailing list technicalities - computer? Your added to the list. Wish me luck getting it fixxed. Raghu >>

Good luck!

Thank you for putting me on your mailing list.

YS, Prtha dd

Subj: from Bhakti-tirtha Swami
Date: 1/12/99 7:02:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: nityanandarama@hotmail.com (jayadeva das)

Dear Raghunatha prabhu,
Please accept my blessings. All glories to ISKCON founder-acarya Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for sharing "Prabhupada's magic".

Yours in Srila Prabhupada's service,
With love,
Bhakti-tirtha Swami
Return address: btswami@ibm.net



Subj: your response to Journal report
Date: 1/13/99 9:07:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: hansa@mmrd.com (Hansa Moy)
Reply-to: Hansa@mmrd.com

Haribol Prabhu,
I just finished reading your response to the Com Journal and wanted to commend you on your presentation of the issue overview. You are an effective speaker/writer which is certainly an asset you are utilizing to the fullest advantage. Don't despair that others may not relate or identify with the problems you have documented. In my own circumstances I have been party to these abuses because I was sometimes too busy trying to keep the farm from foreclosure, pay the bills and avoid politics. It is a weak excuse but an honest admission but the bottom line is that I sincerely regret any abuses you and your generation have suffered and personally apologize for any pain and suffering I may have been party to as a so called "authority". Keep up the good work. Hoping this finds you well in all regards.

y.s.

Hansarupa dasa

Dear Hansa Rupa,'
Thank you for your kind words. If this essay has made you think twice about your role and given you some of the issues to look for in an abusive situation as well as the remedies for it, then this is the real success of this work. I hope this has provided you with some added insight for your vigil on this issue. Good luck on farm

Raghu

Re: Prabhupada's Magic response -Reply
Date: 98-11-24 14:13:23 EST
From: JPREM@rsg.hgea.org (Jean Prem)
To: Anudasa@aol.com

Haribolo Bocha-
I finally had some time to read the stuff...first of all, I again have to say I am impressed with your perceptions and your ability to not be side-tracked by issues that cloud the 'bottom line'. You also are very gentle in your dealings, very much so in how you dealt with PADA ; he is a bit of an eccentric, I think because his cause is just, but he doesn't have the intelligence to clarify the issues to himself, what to speak of communicating them to others. As for Gupta's reply, it seems to me that you must feel some satisfaction, of fruition, even if it never progresses further. (gupta offered to set up a non-profit for the guru-kulis) However, if this is something you feel is good to do, I would suggest that you immediately take advantage of it, as timing is everything, and it is still fresh in Gupta's mind.

Anyway, as far as strategy, at the very least, if you go ahead with the gurukuli Association, that is a huge expensive legal endeavor and it looks like Krsna is handing it you on a platter, I love ya, take care

Date: 11/23/99
Subj: Re: Prabhupada's Magic
From: sanatan@com.org (WWW: Sanatana Dasa (Dallas TX - USA))

I have just a couple comments, Raghu:

The first is a single word that could really help you make your point as a writer: ***PARAGRAPHS***!
Use the [ENTER] button every few sentences to break up your piece and make it easier to follow.

Second, I dispute some of the details in the CKI part of your essay.

Where do you get the figure:
< 80% of the $50,000 collected through Children Of Krishna went for just one of their self appointed "directors" and other "office expenses." >?

On what do you base this opinion?


Other than that...


Sanatan
Dear Sanatan

Your comment about my reference about the $ is well - fair enough. You help me.

I have not gotten a straight answer on this as yet. How much $ did kci receive in the first year? How was in spent. I'm going on what I believe I heard from Manu - $50,000 received, $10, 000 in grants, $25,000 for Krishna Avatar, $15,000 on "misc" office expenses - travel, phone, equipment, printing etc. This is the common impression out here and if wrong - then an example of the need for a West Cost rep. Do you have a different break down on the numbers?

Most of the youth disgusted - well you want verification on this too. Fair enough. Again, I believe this is a West Cost response for sure that the East Cost simply did not know about. There is certainly a lapse here of some kind. I'm a little amused you have never heard of it.

What did you think of the Prabhupada stories. Do you have any you can share about you or parents or Srimad, etc.


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