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EDITORIAL April 4, 1999 VNN3509 See Related VNN Stories Raghu's: Don't Blame Prabhupada For Bad Cooks Or Child Abuse? BY RAGHUNATHA ANUDASA EDITORIAL, Apr 4 (VNN) — Never before have I come to meditate upon Prabhupada or what he has done for me or as a man in his own efforts like I have in rebutting my friends accusations against Prabhupada's responsibilities for ISKCON child abuse. It has forced me to reconsider all the things he had done for guru-kula and what a challenging task that proved to be. That was primarily covered in the last newsletter. Reviewing these points may well leave others feeling as appreciative of both Prabhupada and the sensitivity of the issue among my friends. Purpose: A community center wherein we can honor our common bonds and tap the resources of each others gifts while in dialogue with our most sensitive differences. I've reprinted Adam's (Bhakta Visvareta) letter and then make comments point by point after this. From: (Adam and Easter Christopher) Raghu, You write in your newsletter: > The question is four fold, > 1) what was the lapse between what Prabhupada envisioned vs what happened, > 2) how valid is that vission > 3) what did Prabhupada do to back that vission by way of his resources & influence > 4) what action did he take when presented with the lapses of his >vission for guru-kula Your points are irrelevant. (as is your spelling of vision) They are quite valid and undisputed, but irrelevant. The point is not what he intended, but rather what resulted from his "experiment" with our lives. He didn't say, "I don't quite know what I'm doing, perhaps we can try this." Rather he said, "I am perfect and these are my orders and they must be carried out, no questions asked. Because I am perfect, you need not think critically but rather must simply obey and all will be well." What a scary thing to say. As a result when one parent took his kid out of GK and went to Prabhupada to tell him that the children were being beaten with sticks every day, Prabhupada did not even let the parent speak, but instead ordered him to return his child to GK. When the parent, in an attempt to clarify, asked, "No matter what?" Prabhupada responded, "No matter what!" This points very strongly to a case for greater responsibility than simply as the creator of the mad experiment. He refused, in this case, to even hear his beloved experiment criticized. Rather he again passed down the "perfect" order from on high, to the detriment of the children. You continue in your travesty by making excuses where none are warranted by the evidence at hand. You talk about Indians fighting being more posturing than hurting each other. I beg to differ. I saw a man killed in South India because he'd hit another man's water buffalo with his truck, destroying his truck and preventing his escape. Posturing does exist in India as it exists everywhere else in the world. True violence, battery and mayhem also exist in India and have existed there for millennia. Do you not recall Abhay running home fearing for his life during the Hindu-Muslim riots? Despite your flimsy evidence, beating someone is a violent act. Notice your use of different words: "a shake" or "a slap". These are not a beating. The word beating is self explanatory and requires no interpretation. You continue by implying that Prabhupada could have had no idea what was really going on. Again I must differ with you. He was informed repeatedly that children were being abused, etc. He got mad and then nothing changed. He knew enough to get mad. He didn't **DO** enough to make sure that it stopped and never started again. Rather, when the Dallas GK was experiencing some difficulty over the issue of abuse, he moved the GK's to India and farms where "we can do what we want". I have one thing to say to you regarding your "Indian Gentlemen" assertion: Shatadanya. Nuf said. I could go on and on rebutting your groundless assertions and apologia. The facts remain. Prabhupad is claimed to be perfect and flawless and yet in the issue of GK, he made a huge mistake. I don't claim that he was vicious or evil, but his actions in starting and propagating the GK system, led to evil and viciousness. Please take this opportunity to remove me from your mailing list. I don't have time to rebut your kiss-ass attempt to excuse the failure of the GK experiment. Adam Dear Adam I'm concerned that this discussion has gone from differing opions as friends to an absolute position wherein any and all those who may consider otherwise is automatically an outcaste with out consideration to their standing as friend or foe. This is fanatism and hope you are weary of such behavior having been its victim. Give your friend THE benefit of the doubt that they may have information you have not yet considered as I have done in hearing from you. I present the following in such a mood and hope you consider it in this light. Raghu, You write in your newsletter: > The question is four fold, > 1) what was the lapse between what Prabhupada invissioned vs what >happened, > 2) how valid is that vission > 3) what did Prabhupada do to back that vission by way of his resources & influence > 4) what action did he take when presented with the lapses of his vision for guru-kula Your points are irrelevant. (as is your spelling of vision) They are quite valid and undisputed, but irrelevant. The point is not what he intended, but rather what resulted from his "experiment" with our lives. ****RA Halava is made everyday - successfully. However, it has a recipe. Change the recipe, you get something different as I once discovered at my first family reunion as a devotee. Prabhupada provided 1st rate ingredients and directions to make good halava and guru-kula's. Guru-kula is the widely practiced system of apprenticeship in which a student lives with one mastered in the art of their interest or as it happened in ISKCON, a boarding school. Both systems where common in the 70's when Prabhupada started guru-kula. The "experiment" was not the system of guru-kula, but in having young Western devotees be the ones to apply it just as the experiment at my family reunion was not the halava, but that I was the one attempting to make it. The halava seemed too thick so added more milk but poured too much and so added more favrina which of course then required more sugar. A few strawberries later and ta da, the most remembered "experimental" blob in my Italian family's culinary history. Do we hold Prabhupada responsible for pushing his devotees to cook "Indian" preparations, do we condemn the whole idea of ever having halava again or do we look at me and say, "well no more cooking for you" as my family has now mandated for me. RA******* He didn't say, "I don't quite know what I'm doing, perhaps we can try this." Rather he said, "I am perfect and these are my orders and they must be carried out, no questions asked. Because I am perfect, you need not think critically but rather must simply obey and all will be well." What a scary thing to say. *****RA You're perpetuating the lies of the leadership. Only by insisting that Prabhupada was uncompromising could they bully devotees without accountability. Should the real Prabhupada be presented, - the caring, accommodating and "perhaps we can try this" - ISKCON leaders would be left to act with such kindness. By casting their version of Prabhupada, you are in fact endorsing their modus operand. This is the difference between us, I've seen and came to know Prabhupada first hand - primarily in Vrindavan. You really have little but 2nd hand accounts, primarily by those with motives to cover for themselves such as teachers and leaders. "Defending" Prabhupada for me has as much to do with giving Prabhupada his due credit as crushing this veil of the "dictator Prabhupada" that exploitive leaders have created for themselves. It lies at the foundation of all the abuses for which they use to wash their hands of by holding Prabhupada as the front man. This is the whole reason for writing Prabhupada's Magic - to separate the way the leadership has acted in its dictatorial fashion vs. Prabhupada's as gentle and kind "well wisher." RA******** As a result when one parent took his kid out of GK and went to Prabhupada to tell him that the children were being beaten with sticks every day, Prabhupada did not even let the parent speak, but instead ordered him to return his child to GK. When the parent, in an attempt to clarify, asked, "No matter what?" Prabhupada responded, "No matter what!" This points very strongly to a case for greater responsibility than simply as the creator of the mad experiment. He refused, in this case, to even hear his beloved experiment criticized. Rather he again passed down the "perfect" order from on high, to the detriment of the children. *****RA This is a good example for your case, but I would like a little more detail - who, when, where. Here's why, in my first hand experience, it was exactly opposite of this. Prabhupada told Arandati to take care of her child when she asked if she should instead focus more time on her deity worship while someone took care of her son. Prabhupada responded with the famous letter in which he said that tending to her child was her "deity worship." Prabhupada allowed Kishori to take Kirtan out of Vridnavan when she complained to Prabhupada about how harsh the teachers where with her child and the teachers responded by saying that he was a "discipline problem." Prabhupada told the teachers to send Jagaman to the Hydrabad farm after they insisted the only way to control him was to physically "punish" him. Prabhupada said no, no more hitting. Prabhupada let Anirudha be tutored by his parents though he was in Vrindavan while the guru-kula was in full swing. I know of all these incidents first hand and therefore give Prabhupad the benefit of the doubt that he would generally give permission to a dissatisfied parent as he would with most any devotee about a great many things. I would like more details about this "devotee" you refer to above. I also agree with you that Prabhupada would "seemingly" ignore a devotees complaint, but then to simply to act upon it later. In transcribing Siddhanta's Prabhupada Memory Series, I saw number of devotees tell where in Prabhupada would be confronted by some one about a situation or person and Prabhupada would merrily dismiss them. I can speculate that Prabhupada did this to avoid a climate of confrontation between devotees and even himself or allow his men some leeway to correct themselves. However, Prabhupada took action at some point against every person or situation that could not correct itself. A couple examples I know first hand is that of Kausalya. Men where being "mean" to her. She went to Prabhupada in tears. Prabhupada didn't chastise these men, but instead had her travel with him. A better example, maybe Tamal Krsna Sw who went throughout America with his Radha Damodar Bus tour "kidnapping" brahmacaris from temples, "preaching against women" and marriage. This culminated with Tamal Krsna banning women from the movement. This was done without so much as a word of protest from Prabhupada though well informed by many. Mayapur festival comes around 6 to 8 months later. Prabhupada playfully appoints Tamal Krsna to "preach in China" on his (public) morning walk. Tamal is speechless of course, but not for long. Tamal finally countered he could not accept because of his responsibilities with the Radha Damodara party etc. Prabhupada conveniently relieves him of those responsibilities. Prabhupada had his own, ingenious timing for dealing with people and situations, but the fact is, Prabhupada eventually dealt with most every "situation" presented to him. I believe you will find a similar style of managing guru-kula - especially Vrindavan which was one of the only schools where he was in close proximity. RA***** You continue in your travesty by making excuses where none are warranted by the evidence at hand. You talk about Indians fighting being more posturing than hurting each other. I beg to differ. I saw a man killed in South India because he'd hit another man's water buffalo with his truck, destroying his truck and preventing his escape. Posturing does exist in India as it exists everywhere else in the world. True violence, battery and mayhem also exist in India and have existed there for millennia. Do you not recall Abhay running home fearing for his life during the Hindu-Muslim riots? Despite your flimsy evidence, beating someone is a violent act. Notice your use of different words: "a shake" or "a slap". These are not a beating. The word beating is self explanatory and requires no interpretation. *****RA The irony of this is your very own "interpretation" on "beating" Dhanurdhara when as you put it, you "only hit" him 4 times with his walking cane vs a "stick." This minor incident required you to clarify what actually took place. Thank God for the Internet otherwise this may have taken you years to have fully clarified. How much more true of Prabhupada. RA**** You continue by implying that Prabhupada could have had no idea what was really going on. ****RA I said that there was a generational gap as experienced by most seniors the world over and multiplied by the cultural translations as commonly experienced by many foreigners. This does not even account for the communication gap as you experienced in your own incident of beating your ex-teacher, Dhanurdhara. When Prabhupada said "Show the stick," the teachers translated this to mean, beat the kids with a stick. There is a definite translation problem there. This stands as true for reports presented to Prabhupada as well. RA**** Again I must differ with you. He was informed repeatedly that children were being abused, etc. ****RA I would be interested to know the "repeatedly" for which you refer. RA*** He got mad and then nothing changed. *****RA Read my response to C*** once more, it showed the continuous changes Prabhupada made on a yearly and even monthly basis to improve guru-kula. RA**** He knew enough to get mad. ****RA I have no idea what you refer to so I can't comment, but again, bad news certainly disturbed Prabhupada and would leave him to reply with disgust. RA****** He didn't **DO** enough to make sure that it stopped and never started again. ****RA He did a great deal to "make sure it stopped" as my last newsletter detailed with more then a half dozen specific incidents most of which I knew of first hand. However, no one, no one can make sure that it could "never (be) started again." RA***** Rather, when the Dallas GK was experiencing some difficulty over the issue of abuse, he moved the GK's to India and farms where "we can do what we want". ***RA Again, I see you did not read the entire report for there I point out how unhappy Prabhupada was about the administration closing Dallas guru-kula. I need to clarify this with Dayananda, but I believe Dallas was shut down without notifying Prabhupada first - like many of the things they did. This is an example of a faulty conclusion based upon incomplete information. You remember the media expose on Dallas and you remember Dallas guru-kula closing so naturally assumed Prabhupada closed it to avoid the US Gov't etc. However, years later, we found out Prabhupada did not close it like so many of the other things that he "did not" do. RA***** I have one thing to say to you regarding your "Indian Gentlemen" assertion: Shatadanya. ****RA He's American, not Indian. RA*** Nuf said. I could go on and on rebutting your groundless assertions and apologia. The facts remain. Prabhupada is claimed to be perfect and flawless and yet in the issue of GK, he made a huge mistake. I don't claim that he was vicious or evil, but his actions in starting and propagating the GK system, led to evil and viciousness. *****RA This is how your point sounds to me. The prasadam was terrible in many places - especially India. Therefore, some may conclude that its Prabhupada's fault for introducing Indian preparations to Americans. Yet, we know that Indian food is often great. We also know that Prabhupada always made sure (when he was there) that "prasadam" was prepared exceptionally well. To blame Prabhupada for some devotees bad cooking or even to condemn Prabhupada for introducing American's to Indian cooking is poor logic for casting him as a bad cook or Indian cuisine as terrible food. Not only does blaming Prabhupada inadvertently excuse those devotees as the true culprits for being poor cooks, but it also cuts you off from the great world of cuisine found in Indian food. This stands as true for guru-kula. RA**** Please take this opportunity to remove me from your mailing list. I don't have time to rebut your kiss-ass attempt to excuse the failure of the GK experiment. Adam ****RA You dismiss my position as being entirely insincere and motivated by calling it a "kiss-ass attempt" versus a genuine study of the situation. Worse, I don't "attempt to excuse the failure of GK" but Prabhupada. Its a shame you can't make the distinction. About the Author | Other Stories by this Author See Related VNN Stories | Comment on this Story
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