Section 13

New Text 1648 (38 lines)
Date: 07-Oct-98 02:47
Subject: Status Women's Ministry
------------------------------------------------------------
Running command "Status Women's Ministry"
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women's Ministry
Name: (International) Women's Ministry
Number: Conference 4122
Type: Private, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: Women's.Ministry@com.bbt.se
Created by: Mukhya (dd) HKS (NE-BBT)
Created on: 15-Jan-98
Organizer: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
No of texts: 96
No of members: 13 No of memberships: 0
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 400 KBytes

(International) Women's Ministry has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
0 07-Oct-98 Dhyanakunda (dd) KKD (NE-BBT, Almvik - S)
0 06-Oct-98 Hari (dd) HDG (Oxford Project)
0 07-Oct-98 Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
0 07-Oct-98 Isani (dd) HKS (Abentheuer - D)
0 07-Oct-98 Kusha (dd) ACBSP (Philadelphia, PA - USA)
0 06-Oct-98 Malati (dd) ACBSP (Columbus - USA)
5 02-Oct-98 Mandakini (dd) BVS (Vienna - A)
0 07-Oct-98 Nandi Mukhi (dd) SDG
5 04-Oct-98 Prasanta (dd) LOK (New Delhi - IN)
0 07-Oct-98 Radha (dd) MG
0 07-Oct-98 Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
5 26-Sep-98 Tarunyamrta (dd) (IC) (B)
0 07-Oct-98 Vishaka (dd) ACBSP (Los Angeles, CA - USA)


(International) Women's Ministry has the following Internet members:

Unseen Address and Name
0 <Jagarini@aol.com>
0 <karala@aol.com>
0 <kuntidevi@aol.com> Jaya Sri dasi
0 <pranada@mindspring.com>
0 <vrajalila@acsworld.net>
(Text 1648) ------------------------------------------------

New Text 2577 (36 lines)
Date: 26-Nov-98 17:49
Subject: Status Women's Ministry
------------------------------------------------------------
Running command "Status Women's Ministry"
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women's Ministry
Name: (International) Women's Ministry
Number: Conference 4122
Type: Private, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: Women's.Ministry@com.bbt.se
Created by: Mukhya (dd) HKS (Asst. SysOp) (NE-BBT)
Created on: 15-Jan-98
Organizer: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
No of texts: 972
No of members: 11
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 400 KBytes

(International) Women's Ministry has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
3 26-Nov-98 Dhyanakunda (dd) KKD (NE-BBT, Almvik - S)
249 26-Nov-98 S Hari (dd) HDG (Oxford Project)
3 26-Nov-98 Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
81 25-Nov-98 Isani (dd) HKS (Abentheuer - D)
0 26-Nov-98 Kusha (dd) ACBSP (Philadelphia, PA - USA)
0 26-Nov-98 Nandi Mukhi (dd) SDG
599 17-Nov-98 Prasanta (dd) LOK (New Delhi - IN)
0 26-Nov-98 Radha (dd) MG
0 26-Nov-98 Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
610 17-Nov-98 Tarunyamrta (dd) (IC) (B)
0 26-Nov-98 Vishaka (dd) ACBSP (Los Angeles, CA - USA)

(International) Women's Ministry has the following Internet members:

Unseen Address and Name
0 <Jagarini@aol.com>
0 <karala@aol.com>
0 <kuntidevi@aol.com> Jaya Sri dasi
0 <pranada@mindspring.com>
0 <vrajalila@acsworld.net>
(Text 2577) ------------------------------------------------

(Get) Day/Time - status women's ministry
(Show) Status (on) (International) Women's Ministry

You are not allowed to see status on (International) Women's Ministry.

(Get) Day/Time - status sudharma
(Show) Status (on) Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)

Name: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA)
Number: Person 2666
Type: Open
Netmail address: Sudharma.ACBSP@com.bbt.se
Last active: 11-Dec-98 21:50 -0400
Forwarding Mail to: Sudharma@aol.com (Individually, Alone, 150 KB)
Unseen letters: 0
Number of sessions: 12 Accumulated time in COM: 00:39:15
Default Text expiration: Default Incoming Text expiration: Default
Address1:
Address2:
Address3:
Country: Time zone: -0400
Phone:

Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua - USA) is a member of the following conferences:

Unseen Type Name
0 Apocalypse 1999? (Are you ready?)
0 Applying Varnasrama (in Sri Mayapur Project)
0 GMC (GBC Ministerial Committee)
0 ICNA (ISKCON Communications North America)
0 ICSD (ISKCON Commission social/economic development)
0 IWC (Internat. Women's Conference)
0 (ISKCON) Ministries
0 (Announcements of) New Conferences
0 Prabhupada Disciples
0 (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development
0 (COM) System (Info)
0 O Temple Support
0 WAC (Widows Ashrama Conference)
0 Widows' Ashrama Project
0 X (All COM users)

Name: IWC (Internat. Women's Conference)
Number: Conference 2850
Type: Private, Write protected, Only Members, Files, Save Expired Texts
Netmail address: IWC@com.bbt.se
Created by: Raktambara (das) HKS (SysOp) (NE-BBT)
Created on: 05-Feb-97
Organizers: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)
Hariballabha (dd) HKS (Berlin - D)
Moderator: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)
No of texts: 1329
No of members: 82 No of memberships: 0
Downloads: Yes Uploads: Yes
Text expiration time: Default
Maximum Size of Forwarded Files: 0 KBytes

IWC (Internat. Women's Conference) has the following members:

Unseen Last present * Name
3 21-Sep-98 Acintya Rupa (dd) BJD (Melbourne - AU)
3 21-Sep-98 Aja Laxmi (dd) JPS (Mayapur - IN)
3 21-Sep-98 (Temple) Alachua (Florida, USA)
53 03-Sep-98 Anavadyangi (dd) ACBSP (Stagecoach, Nevada - USA)
3 21-Sep-98 Anjana (dd) ACBSP (IC UK - GB)

Text 1873529 from COM]
Lines: 480
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 98 15:48 -0500
From: "COM: Mukunda Goswami" <Mukunda.Goswami@com.bbt.se>
Reply-To: Mukunda.Goswami@com.bbt.se, GBC.Discussions@com.bbt.se
To: "COM: GBC Discussions" <GBC.Discussions@com.bbt.se>
Subject: Women in ISKCON
----------------------------

McLean, VA USA, 21 November 1998

Dear GBC members,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Some of ISKCON's leaders and members have apparently been making
extreme statements about the women in our movement. For those of you who may have already seen some of these statements, please forgive the redundancy. It appears that some of these declarations have become part of the public record via internet. Postings and other information indicate that these are not just a handful of disgruntled individuals, rather there appears to be a cabal, a group of conspirators engaging in a pseudo-military-styled strategy that aims to ill-name, misrepresent, exploit and minimize a section of our society. This crosses the line of Vaisnava etiquette, to say the least. We are have information that certain parties have given these statements to the anti-cult movement. Therefore, as leaders of ISKCON, we should be prepared to take appropriate steps to publicly condemn such positioning and language, lest these be considered collectively to be (God forbid!) ISKCON's "official" position.

Below are some samples of some of their remarks; please know that these only represent the thin wedge of what appears to be a much larger tyranny:

"I will not tolerate women raksasi mentality in ISKCON. You are obviously in
maya, and don't know the scriptures. Lord Narasimha even incarnated once to kill demonic amazonian women trying to control the world, it is not that bad yet. My grandfather was a freedom fighter against Nazis in Denmark, and a priest. And I am a freedom fighter against nazi women in ISKCON. You are envious, it is very obvious. I guarantee you, you will never get married,
and if you are or do, you will be a troublemaker to your husband."

"And in all those lifetime of Brahma's births in a male body you'll have to
marry a woman just like you. Imagine that! She will be unsubmissive shrew,
and all the other reasons your husband rejected you. Yet demanding that you support her, protect her and provide for her. Imagine that! Life after life
for millions of lives of Lord Brahma. Welcome to hell."

"As far as etiquette and how mothers are to be treated, the sastra also shed
light on that issue.

1. When Bhumi was withholding her nourishment, Prthu was about to cut her to pieces--mother or not.

2. When Kaikeya banished Rama in order to satisfy her own lust for fame and adoration, Bharata was ready to decapitate her; his own natural mother. . . when we see mothers promoting adharma and insisting that it is their god-given right to do so. . . it would be the greatest folly to accept them and treat them as real mothers. . . As we can see, the etiquette normally reserved for real mothers cannot be used in this situation."

"Now look what we have: some little immature, mouthy little wench of an upstart trying to correct and chastise a senior devotee, who is faithfully following and presenting Krsna consciousness in all it's [sic] various social and philosophical dimensions and who most importantly supports all of his statements by sastra. What have we done? We've created little monsters!" (said about an initiated female devotee who disagreed with anti-woman
position)

"It's amazing how many of these very same men who have abandoned their wives and children are the very same ones who now seek to liberate them from the shackles of Vedic morality. . . This is the psychology of the irresponsible men that cheat women and children by supporting and in fact propagating this puffed up concept of womanly life."

"Some men know they will not be on the GBC, so they hope their wife will be
and thus they will have influence in this way." (the above two statements were said about men who disagree with the anti-woman position)

"I also know of others who are shameless. Their lives are riddled with the
grossest type of deviations. Their lives are an embarrassment to Krsna consciousness. Yet they arrogantly insist on becoming leaders as if they can
show the chaste and faithful women and responsible men how to become Krsna conscious. These type of females are ISKCON's major liability. Divorce, remarriage, prostitution, pimping and drug use. There is no doubt that such
is extraordinary behaviour for vaisnavis. But then again they are so transcendental that they no longer need to follow common moral rules and regulations. Right?"

"Women managers will cause further falldowns. Indira Gandhi was a living
example of this, and things repeat themselves, so women managers, GBC's and TP's will be equal to more falldowns." (the above two comments were said of women in leadership positions)

Some members of this group have referred to the ISKCON Women's Ministry (IWM) as "the International Whore Ministry"; the IWC has been dubbed "the
International Witches conference"; women who are taking up leadership positions are known as "feminazis", "monsters" with "no souls", "demons", and "destroyers of religious principles."

The following exchange took place in regards to the women's ministry:
"Don't the GBC members have anything but bull-dung for brains?"
"You're being too kind"
"Many of the GBC have become completely bewildered by their charms and have become dancing dogs."

By way of contrast, the following article, which was started several weeks ago and was put on the COM BTG staff conference on Tuesday, 17 November 1998, is scholarly and civilized. Although it is not customary for the entire GBC to review a BTG article before publication, I thought this could be an exception. In fact it was Visakha prabhu, the author, who originally requested just such a review. BTG's editor-and-chief, Nagaraja dasa agrees and welcomes your comments. We request, however, that every GBC member give a "yea" or "nay" to BTG publishing this article in the usual "generally in favor" or "generally opposed" style of straw voting. We need your response by 29 November, 1998.

Remember, there is room for many letters to the editor and the opportunity for a "response" article, subject to the usual editorial review, even though the "other side" has already (maybe inadvertently) made its point. Comments AND your straw vote should be directed to Nagaraja@mindspring.com

Many thanks.

your servant,
Mukunda Goswami

From: "COM: Sudharma (dd) ACBSP (Alachua) <Sudharma.ACBSP@com.bbt.se>
To: 100526.1600@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Re: Internet Message Header
Date: Thu, Jan 15, 1998, 3:00 PM

[Text 1034134 from COM]

Dear Guruattma and Devaki,

My humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your text and thought. I believe their was another text, or perhaps it was from you that expressed this concept of a man representing the Women's Ministry.

I would like to take more time to answer this, but given the circumstances,
let me at least begin with a few points.

First, men are a part of the Ministry....Bhaktitirtha Maharaja, Bir Krishna Maharaja, and Anuttama have been extremely active since it's inception. But also Hrydayanada Maharaja, Mukunda Maharaja, Lokanatha Maharaja and many others have been taken on many roles of support. It is a team effort and the men are very active.

<snip>

Your humble servant,
Sudharma dasi

Text COM:1866684 (23 lines)
From: Antardwip (das) JPS (GB)
Date: 20-Nov-98 09:55
To: Astrology [457]
To: GCD (Grhastha Culture Dialogue) [599]
To: Mataji Council (Germany) [459]
To: (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development [804]
To: Varnasrama development [6659]
To: (International) Women's Ministry [488]
To: Sridhari (dd) JPS (Mendoza - ARG) [821] (forwarded: 20-Nov-98
For: Granddisciples (of Srila Prabhupada)
For: Vedic Astrology (Symposium hosted by Shyamasundara Das)
Reference: Text COM:1865469 by Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley -
Comment: Text COM:1874478 by Ananta Purusottama (das) TSI (GB)
Subject: RE: MAJOR CONSPIRACY EXPOSED Part 1
------------------------------------------------------------

> >If they are doing all this, leave them with, it's their problem because they
> >will never reach the spiritual world, but if it is not true, you're making
> >an big apparadha, and this is very dangerous for your life.

> Putting our head in the sand will only play into the bigoted agenda of the
> GHQ members.

What does GHQ stand for, and what is it's bigoted agenda its members all
subscribe to? I am surprised that a particular Maharaja's name has been
connected to GHQ forum, as I know him very well and in his writings on Indian Village culture he clearly values highly the family (grihastha) ashrama.

Hang Shymasundara prabhu high by all means, but everyone one that forum? Surely we need to see the texts individuals have written first.

I feel that individuals should be held accountable for their own writings on
any forum, not everyone on that forum. But if it has a specific agenda all
agree to which is bigoted, that is different. So what is that agenda, and how
did everyone agree to it?

I know you say zero tolerance, but zero tolerate Shymasundara and anyone else who made adequately disparaging remarks, not everyone. Otherwise the women may start a witch-hunt! (Only for men-witches this time!)
(Text COM:1866684) ----------------------------------------------

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