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EDITORIAL January 21, 1999 VNN2890 See Related VNN Stories A New Thing BY PRTHA DEVI DASI EDITORIAL, Jan 21 (VNN) — It is interesting that some devotee men want to clarify that what they are about to say does not apply to the "good" women of this movement who are mothers and wives. What about women who are doing temple service? What about those with no husband or children? What about single women who have to work to survive yet live a Krishna Conscious life at home? What about a modern woman, or an old fashioned woman? And what about women who are good wives and mothers but not the way GHQ think they *should* be? Must women fit into the mold of GHQ to go back to Godhead? Are none of these women "good"? On the contrary, "ALL" devotee women are good. I once heard a story of a gentleman who visited a friend's home. As he left he complimented his friend's good wife. After he was gone the woman told her husband, "How did he know that I was good?" Of course she was, but it is interesting how easy it is to get a woman to think lowly of herself and how a woman is automatically considered sinful by some men unless it is specified that she is good. Those same men assume that anyone in the male species is good without the need to make such a specification. Prabhupada said that these (devotee) women are different, do not take advantage. There are many ways to take advantage. It can easily be done by making a woman think that she is not good, not intelligent or that she is inferior. Then the man can do whatever he pleases to her - including abuse and neglect. While Prabhupada's did say that women should be married he also did not expect every woman to marry nor did he expect all men in this age of kali to remain brahmacari. As a matter of fact, very few men remained brahmacari. (Therefore, there is no *need* for polygamy.) He started a brahmacarini ashrama which is not Vedic, not part of "traditional" dharma. Prabhupada knew that some women would not want to marry and would need such an ashrama. Therefore one cannot focus only on part of his instructions where he said that all women must have a husband and yet omit other aspects, such as his personal creation of a brahmacarini ashrama for women who did not wish to marry. He also gave women brahmana initiation which is also not traditional. Prabhupada gave equal opportunity to women. The complaint about breach of confidentiality regarding the private posts of the GHQ is just to cloud the real issue. After all, they should not have been making such offensive comments in the first place. Instead of complaining they should be apologizing. They will never find such posts about men on IWC, which is also a confidential conference. Again I state that it is when one is in private that their true level of Krishna Consciousness is revealed. The private comments of GHQ remain unacceptable. There is no excuse such as breach of confidentiality. If this is what they believe is all right to say in private online, one can't help but wonder what they think is acceptable, not merely to speak but to do to their wife when they are behind four walls in the privacy of their homes. Some men in this movement, not all, are threatened by the status of women as equals. Men who do not want women to be equal are revealing their low self esteem. I wish that they felt better about themselves. Ultimately they have to fix the problem and not pass it down to their wife or godsisters. It is time that men stopped blaming their marital difficulties or divorces on IWM or women and start owning up to their personal problems starting with their male superiority complex. That in itself often leads to divorce or serious marital issues. If such men really believe that women are so inferior, why do they feel so threatened? On some level they know that women are not inferior at all and they don't like that. Women are not hungry after power; desiring to become Amazonian. No. This is a male fear that they will lose their women or can't keep the one they want to get, since they can no longer hold onto her by mere use of control. They will have to learn relationship skills and take responsibility for the success OR failure of their marriage. Husbands have to get involved; the right way. Incidentally, the word "amazonian" also means "strength." One cannot help but wonder if some men are afraid of strong women, only feeling comfortable around a weak woman that they can control. Therefore they criticize the strong ladies of this movement with name-calling and chastisement. Women are not trying to take strength away from men. Simply that men have to have real strength in the first place. They will be unable to look superior by keeping women down to give an appearance of their strength. That is called one-upmanship. They will now have to do the work to qualify themselves and become purified in the process. This movement has left some men spoiled. They have had the best quarters, the best prasadam, taken mrdungas right out of the hands of women, had many privileges merely due to their material body. They think that they are supposed to have a servant and are needy to be superior to someone-anyone. Without a woman some men can't keep their living quarters clean, cook a meal, mend their clothes once in a while or do their laundry properly. Unfortunately American men consider these to be feminine qualities. However even in India men do such things. It is part of brahmacari training which should have a lasting effect. Such characteristics are what men have taken birth to overcome, not to go along with their so-called nature. That is, material nature. Some were never humbled and now, twenty years later, that this little thing has come up over women equality which will reduce their grandiose post, some can't take the humble position and are making a big issue out it. They fear they might loose their privileges which were an automatic merely by being in a male body. They are right. Now they will have to earn them. However there ARE men in this movement who are qualified and don't view themselves as superior to women. They don't need to. They are a whole person and don't need to compete against women to prove it. While some speak of the male psychological desire to protect women, it did not and is not happening. It is the ladies in the movement that are trying to secure that protection will happen. Men did not protect yet now they complain when women do what they couldn't or wouldn't do. They are embarrassed. However, they will not start to protect. It is simply a ploy to keep their post of *superiority* and has little or nothing to do with helping a woman. When push comes to shove they usually do not come to the rescue of a woman but defend and especially protect themselves. It is only weak men that are threatened by strong women. Such women make them look at themselves and than they notice their weaknesses. This angers them and they become mad at the women rather than improve and purify themselves. Strong devotee men are not threatened in the least by strong women, as we have seen. They are supporters and speak out against nonsensical male superiority philosophies. It takes strength for the men to speak out against their own species becausae there will be an attempt to put them down and try to convince them they are henpecked, controlled by a woman, et cetera. Such philosophies are the OPPOSITE of woman protections. These beliefs are those of 13-year-old boys in a men bodies. Mature men have different thinking patterns. Srila Prabhupada himself believed in woman's equality. He just recognized the difference between male and female. Physiologically they are different and that is what too many view as superior birth. However, someone who is physically stronger is not necessarily smarter. A strong body does not mean smart. There are many men with a lot of brawn but no brains. "We are Vaishnava's. We are not concerned with male or female position in life That is simply bodily concept of life. It is not good spiritual. Whether one is male or female, it does not matter, simply chant Hare Krishna and follow the four regulative principles and your life will be perfect." Srila Prabhupada letter to Jennifer, 1975 It is humbling for the men in this movement who have gotten use to thinking so highly of themselves merely because they are men. This is their golden opportunity to make spiritual advancement by getting off this bodily platform, stopping this defensiveness and accepting all of Prabhupada's words regarding women. They must stop limiting it only the words he spoke which please their senses, usually varnashrama dharma not transcendental Krishna Consciousness, but accept those that they are not use to hearing since much was repressed. Yes, it was repressed by previous authorities so it is understandable that some men (and some women) have a hard time with it but that does not make it acceptable that they stay stuck. When the pure devotee speaks one must look at everything he says, the whole picture, and than believe it! Stop arguing with it. Such men should not allow the male false ego to get in the way or be afraid to reevaluate their personal understanding of their Krishna Conscious belief system that they are comfortable with. Reevaluation will only lead to spiritual advancement since it is based on Prabhupada's instructions which were repressed. "Now I see the girls are smarter than the boys." Srila Prabhupada, letter to Krishna Devi, 1970. In this last quote, my personal understanding includes the fact that Prabhupada is talking about *OUR* society, not Bengalis, not Hinduism, not Varnashrama- dharma or the caste system; but transcendental Krishna Consciousness. However, some men will either ignore such quotes or find an angle around the quotes of Prabhupada that do not please them or that threatens their maleness. Of course the bottom line is that the body or intelligence level is not so important. However GHQ brought it up and powerfully. As long as they think it is important and therefore preach this, such male hierarchy could result in putting women and children at risk of abuse or neglect. Though it seems that no matter how many quotes one offers such men they turn Prabhupada off when they want to and turn him on when he says what they like. However, people can change and my hope is that there are some men out there who were only thinking of themselves as superior because someone wrongly told them this was coming from Prabhupada. When they hear truth they will go after it. Some men want truth, not power, position, prestige, etc., over women and others. If we allow this to continue it will extend to others. To children, to black men; anyone who fits the "sudra" category, even to the new bhakta who was a "karmi" recently, or the old devotee struggling to come back. Eventually, it could extend to the elderly or anyone who is weak or vulnerable. What needs to be understood is that in Krishna Consciousness NO ONE is a sudra. Prabhupada was strongly against the caste system. GHQ and sympathizers are followers of the caste system. Men who still remain stubborn, holding on to their unwillingness to accept women equality, (not sameness but equality), do not want to hear truth because if they did than they may find out they are not as advanced as they enjoy viewing themselves as. To accept woman's equality means they can no longer claim superiority by mere birth. They are like Hindu brahmana's who think they are brahmana simply by birth and not by qualification. They would have to change, work at it, become purified in order to be viewed as superior if they accept the concept of women equality. Matter of fact, it is unlikely that they would ever be viewed as superior again if they accepted woman equality because it becomes only Prabhupada who is given such an exalted position under this belief, with the rest of us equally serving his lotus feet. With woman equality ones position of superior becomes based on what they do, not on what material body they are in. It no longer becomes a free ticket to spiritual advancement, although it never really was but this is their illusion. Prabhupada himself has said these bodily designations do not matter in Krishna Consciousness, yet GHQ or supporters ignore this, rationalizes it or find some loophole around it. * "Regarding your questions about the examination to be given, the girls will also be able to take these. In Krishna Consciousness there is no distinction between girls and boys. The girls also may become preachers if they are able." (letter to Himavati, 1969) * When Srila Prabhupada was asked if Jyotirmayi should finish her studies in ethnology, (studies of religion and culture), in order to teach vaishnavism in the universities, He answered, "Yes, she is very intelligent girl, she can do it." (Yogesvara) * It is not that women should only produce children, but they are meant for advancing in devotion." (letter to Jayatirtha, 1975) * In the Bhagavad Gita we find that women are also equally competent "like the men" in the matter of Krishna Consciousness movement." (letter to Himavati, 1969) *A devotee woman recalls that she was once in a Srila Prabhupada's room for a darshan. There were hundreds of devotees visiting from other temples. Before lecturing, he insisted that the women, (who were all at the back), come and sit up front on one side of the vyasana. At least five sannyasi's, and about twenty men had to move to make room for the women. Srila Prabhupada sat quietly for about five minutes while everyone was relocating themselves and getting situated. * "Regarding your question, yes woman can certainly reach the perfectional stage of devotion to Krishna." (letter to Krishna Devi, 1969) *While during darshan, Srila Prabhupada had a brahmacari distribute a little prasadam to everyone present. The boy gave prasadam to all the men and sat down. Srila Prabhupada noticed that he did not serve the only two girls present, and said, "Give them also prasad, why don't you serve them?" * "Women are better than men because they can accept any position." (Bhavatarini) * In France, when Prabhupada noticed that Jyotirmayi could pronounce the Sanskrit better than others, (she had been taught by Nitai, His personal Sanskrit secretary), Srila Prabhupada said that from now on, she should lead the recitation of the Sanskrit verses before class. (Jyotirmayi, 1972) * When a male devotee refused to be instructed by Jadurani, the head of the art department, because of her being a woman, Prabhupada called him in and ordered him to accept her instructions. * "I want to organize a women's kirtan party singing the Gita-gan. Can you help me?" (letter to Gargamuni Maharaja, 1974) * A disciple of Swami Narayana said to Srila Prabhupada, "My spiritual master said to avoid all women and to never go where there are women." Srila Prabhupada laughed, and said, "That is impossible, there are women everywhere." Then, coming back to the temple and watching two women devotees bow down to Him, He said, "By associating with these women, you will be purified." (Madhavananda) * An acarya who comes for the service of the Lord cannot be expected to conform to a stereotype, for he must find the ways and means by which Krishna Consciousness may be spread. Sometimes jealous persons criticize the Krishna Consciousness movement because it engages *equally* both boys and girls in distribution of love of Godhead. (Chaitanya-caritamrita A.L. ch.7 purport of verses 32 and 38) * On various occasions, brahmacari's complained to Srila Prabhupada that they were agitated by the presence of women in the temple, and Srila Prabhupada replied that if they could not restrain their senses, they should go live alone in the forest. * When women were made to stand behind the men in the back of the temple room instead of side by side as established by Srila Prabhupada, women went on different occasions to Prabhupada who simply answered, "Why, the men on one side, the women on one side." * When the women were made to offer flowers after the men during guru-puja, instead of simultaneously, Srila Prabhupada, informed by Ekayani, gave the same answer: "Why, the men from one side, the women from one side." (Ekayani) * Bhibavati asked Srila Prabhupada, "Should I live like in the Vedic times, and simply serve my husband and child?" Srila Prabhupada replied, "No, you have talent as a writer, you should write articles for newspapers and propagate Krishna Consciousness." (Bhibavati) * Srila Prabhupada said to a lady disciple, "Well, if you think you are a woman that means you are less intelligent, because you are supposed to understand that you are a spirit soul and that your real identity is transcendental to these bodily designations." (Sadaputa) My personal thoughts about this last letter are that it is not limited to women. If a man thinks that he is a man than he too is less intelligent because he also should be thinking that he is a spirit soul, not a man. Prabhupada said that he started a "new thing." Above are many quotes and personal instructions proving that he broke out of the "traditional" Vedic system and started his own tradition. It is time that this is no longer ignored, minimized, brushed under the carpet or argued because it IS a fact. He started something new. Finished. One should surrender to the pure devotee and this new thing he said he has started. I will repeat, GHQ and supporters, please do not spam my mailbox. This request was ignored the last time. Anyone who supports woman equality, please feel free to e-mail me. (No GHQ or sympathizers in disguise. No pseudonyms.) Your Servant, Prtha devi dasi See Related VNN Stories | Comment on this Story This story URL: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9901/ET21-2890.html
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