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EDITORIAL December 19, 1998 VNN2705 See Related VNN Stories Women In ISKCON BY SITA DEVI DASI EDITORIAL, Dec 19 (VNN) — Dear Mother Padyavali, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all glories to his followers. I must admit I was surprised to read your letter on Chakra, which is, in part, a letter to me. I hope we can eventually clear whatever misunderstandings are there between us because you (and your sister) have always been very dear to me. However, I do not feel that this public forum is the best place to be discussing my (or your) personal and spiritual life. I do have many realizations on the brahmacarini asrama which I'd like to share with you but feel it is better done in a more personal way than this present form of communication. Perhaps I can phone you this weekend to discuss things further? If so, please e-mail me your telephone number. My e-mail address is btb@georgian.net With regards to the GHQ conference which I had some limited involvement with, please realize that it was only extracts of texts and discussions that were posted on VNN by someone who hides behind the name "Ardhabuddhi". They do not accurately represent what the GHQ members stand for and about what the members are appealing to the GBC. Certain controversial words were used which would not have been used in public. For a devotee to have posted these statements to VNN would have gone against COM and ISKCON rules but obviously, "Ardhabuddhi" is not someone who has imbibed the Vaisnava qualities of truthfulness and fearlessness. I know that you have yourself said many things to me about devotees, even leaders, in ISKCON, which if they were repeated here would cause much controversy! 8-) I have noticed that the Women's Ministry's (WM) primary objective is to achieve complete material equality with the men, similar to the nondevotee feminist agenda. Though the WM is supposed to represent all ISKCON women the majority of representatives of the NA Women's Ministry are divorced and remarried or single women. There are also no husbands or other male authority figures present on the private Women's Ministry conference on COM. I ask you, how can all the serious concerns of women in ISKCON be addressed when there is such an imbalanced representation? Once-married, non-abused women who are aspiring to remain chaste to their one and only husband also need role models for inspiration and training of our second and third generation daughters. Do you think this is too much to ask? I have no argument with your presentation of Advaita Acharya's request to Lord Caitanya to distribute his mercy to everyone, including women, poor people, etc but I don't exactly know what you are implying in your highlighted excerpt from Varsana Swami's book: >*****"When you distribute this pure love of God, don't give it to those who >are envious, to those who are malicious toward the devotees, because if >You give this sweet nectar to those who are like envious snakes, they will >simply become more venomous. They will use its potency simply to impede >this movement. They must first become free of their >pride by burning >their own envy. So You don't give it to them."****** I will have to assume what you are saying here is that I am bereft of the Lord's mercy because I (we) am like an envious snake. Is this correct? Do you think that my/our objection to Malati's being appointed GBC candidate is due to envy? >Why are the women of the world trying to band together and create some >measure of safety for themselves and their children? Because this is the >Age of Kali and the women and children of this age are most unfortunate. Why do we not follow Draupadi's example of appealing to her authorities when she was abused instead of taking it into our own hands? Why did you not approach my/our authorities about your concerns instead of passing premature judgement about our attitude, intentions and convictions in public? Is this the new trend for resolving conflicts amongst devotees? >What are they trying to do with Lord Caitanya's mercy? Stop its flow or >control the flow so that it reaches only those who they deem fit to >receive it? I'll assume I am included in the "they" you refer to here. No, of course "we" are not trying to do such a thing. The Lord's mercy is available to everyone, regardless of gender, age, race, etc.. Who are we to restrict it? What was being discussed was simply whether certain individuals should be given certain leadership roles in ISKCON. I have always encouraged your efforts to train women. I do, however, have some personal realizations on how the training in brahmacarini asramas could be improved. Since you have been working on a book on this topic, perhaps you would like to discuss this some more. If you uphold the principle that single women are to live separately from men, how can you endorse the association of single women (unprotected by fathers, husbands and sons) with men, including sannyasis. If women take up the service of TP's or GBC's or Ministers, is it not practically impossible to avoid close association with men? As you will note in the letters posted below, Prabhupada did not want such women sewing clothes for sannyasis what to speak of managerial discussions. "You may check that they are chanting and following the rules but do not get involved with their management. So far your suggestion that they sew clothes for the sannyasis Deities it is not possible. Sannyasis may have no connection with women." (Letter to: Jayatirtha Calcutta 13 January, 1976) It is an ISKCON Law that: [LAW] 620. THAT the following is added to GBC resolution 413-96: "Standards of a temple president: A female temple president should; - see all men as son except her husband. - never be alone with a man except one's husband. - avoid intimate dealings with men. - as far as possible appoint a senior man to deal with men's affairs. - in certain conditions it may be prudent for a female president to have her husband deal with the men, or for a male president to have his wife deal with the women. The general principle is that the temple president should avoid intimate dealings with the opposite sex. It is also a GBC resolution that: 26.4.5 Whereas it is against Vedic and Vaisnava principles for women to take sannyas, and whereas it is not authorized by Srila Prabhupada, it is resolved that those women rejoining ISKCON after taking sannyas are free to rejoin their families. If any woman devotee is internally committed to celibacy they are welcome to follow that decision in ISKCON in white cloth and to render devotional service up to their full capacity and dedicate themselves to the sankirtan movement of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They are to be encouraged and respected as preachers. (94) I find it discouraging when women leaders/role models do not follow these guidelines. >******Prabhupada DOESN'T DESCRIBE AN ASHRAM OF MARRIED >WOMEN MIXED WITH UNMARRIED WOMEN. (So for the grhastas to look after the >women's affairs is not Srila Prabhupada's instruction.) What was being proposed by GHQ'ers was not that grhasthas take charge of women's asramas but that the women's ministry (which is not just for brahmacarinis) be supervised by grhasthas rather than sannyasis. >Don't try to twist things to suit your personal concoctions of His mercy. This >is not good. I am very surprised that you would speak and act in such a >fashion. Can you please elaborate and be more specific? >That others have joined you is even more shocking. There is no >mercy in what you say and no love in what you do. I personally have no >interest in pursuing your line of thinking as it is wrong for this age >and for the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Can you please elaborate and be more specific? >You see what will happen if the Grhastas take over the women's ashrams. >Jiva prabhu (who was found shot to death after he took over the women's >program in Berkeley), and Dharmatma Dasa in New Vrindama ended up with 4 >wives. No one has ever proposed such a thing, Mother Padyavali. We have discussed the necessity of women's asramas on the Dharma conference and the members there know our views and have seen how we have encouraged Malati in this regard. I would be interested in your thoughts on the following GBC resolution: 26.4.2 ISKCON does not support an independent all-women's asrama, because in every case a woman should be protected by a man.(76) >You often state that your years as a Brahmacharini prepared you for the >austerities of Grhasta ashram where you have four children. This is true (and I have another on the way). But my particular experience in the brahmacharini ashrama didn't prepare me for my household duties. I was often hearing that babies were "stool bags" and grhastha women were "in maya". I was told, when the Indian life-member ladies made some objection to our going to sell flowers in bars on New Year's Eve that they had no taste for or experience of Lord Caitanya's mercy. I was told, when I wanted to learn how to cook and do aratis on the altar, that only devotees who couldn't do anything else but "ring the bells in the temple" should do those services. Do you remember having said these things? Do you still hold those views? Do you think that the methods Prabhupada recommended for training brahmacarinis are identical to those he instructed for training our second generation daughters? I know you preferred straight book distribution to collecting but we ended up collecting laksmi from paraphernalia sales and then distributing books for free. I preferred selling stickers in Chinatown, partly because the Chinese didn't like their bodies being "pinned" with a sticker, neither did I like doing this. I couldn't bring myself to do the "change-up" which other Mothers were expert at. I was so naive at seventeen that it took me awhile to figure out what kind of bar I was selling roses in on Valentine's Day, where the women were dancing with other women. When I lived with you in Montreal, there was a time when my health had weakened to the point where I stopped my monthly cycle. When I approached you with this concern, you flatly told me not to talk to you about such things, since you were a renunciate (a few years later, you remarried). I began to pace myself more and took regular breaks while doing the "pin-up". I happened to buy some almonds once on a break and found that it helped my energy. As I continued eating almonds every day, I found my leg cramps disappeared. Later, I discovered in a health book that leg cramps were a sign of calcium deficiency. >Because you have this experience in your own life why are you now acting >as a spy for those male devotees who are trying to make the women's >ministry a villain and blame everything going wrong in ISKCON on it. They >are using you as their token women in their crazy schemes. You know this >is nonsense. What you say here is not true. Has someone told you this or are these your own conclusions? >You are being used to collect all "the dirt" on all the women leaders so >as to vilify them and have people disrespect them. You are spying on >their conference and reporting back to these men. Why? This is wrong >Sita. What you are saying here is also incorrect. >You are also a woman in this movement and you are raising three daughters >and a >son. What do you mean? This is not a matter of men against women. It's a matter of understanding the cultural goals of ISKCON. Do you think that my being a woman obliges me to support all the philosophical conclusions and social objectives of the Women's Ministry? >Jivan Mukta sounds like some wild fanatic. No, he is definitely not a "wild fanatic" but I never thought I'd see the day that you would criticize my husband (pati-guru) like this, not only to me directly, but to the whole world via the Internet! You have known my husband longer than I have. He and Bhakti Marga Swami, as brahmacaris, were practically single-handedly maintaining the entire Toronto temple. As a grhastha he made many sacrifices to assist in helping the crises which arose in the temple management. You also know well how he is, and always has been, a very responsible husband and father. I am deeply offended by your accusation. >What is happening with him? He must calm down or his own name calling of >senior devotees will bring him down. Why not be specific in what "name calling of senior devotees" you are referring to? Also, why did you not pose your concerns to a senior male devotee to speak to my husband? If not for the strength of our marriage, this type of criticism is something which could easily destroy it. I wonder how many marriages in ISKCON have been ruined by similar interference. Always your servant, Sita dd PS- Here are a few letters from Prabhupada on the subject of Yamuna's women's asrama which you may find inspiring/educational. Letter to: Yamuna -- Los Angeles 26 July, 1970 70-07-26 London My Dear Yamuna, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated 12 July, 1970, and noted the contents. I have also received the pera and it is very nice. I know that you prepare everything very carefully for the Deities. You can offer the Deities as many varieties of sweetmeats as possible. I am very glad to learn that your training program is going on and the result is that now men are trained for opening and maintaining new branches. This is very much encouraging to me. So there are many things to be trained up and I am sure both yourself and Gurudasa are competent to execute them. So your program of study is very nice and regulated. Try to chant the mantras. It will not be difficult because the transliterations are there. In Los Angeles temple they are doing it very nicely every morning. Yes, I am glad to learn that the brahmacarinis are engaged in assisting work and cleaning. These are the most important duties for the brahmacarinis--namely cleansing. Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally used to inspect temple cleaning and if He would see a little particle of dust He would remark, "O, you have not done very nice.'' So try to follow His footsteps in the matter of cleansing. By nicely cleansing one can get promotion in the spiritual kingdom in some of the Vaikuntha planets--it is so nice. So your program for training your Godsisters is very nice, so do it nicely as you have got experience in arcana. There is no matter if there is a little change here and there--the real duty is love and devotion. But you say that the women with children make their schedules around their children. That is the difficulty for family men, their first worshipable object becomes the children. What can be done? You are fortunate that you have got Krsna as your son. The slides which you have sent of recent temple innovations is very, very excellent. One Bengali gentleman from London has sent me a letter praising your decoration of the Deities. The exact words he has used are that one cannot turn his face once turning towards the Deities. I have also seen the slides and my opinion is also the same. Please, therefore, go on getting credit for your service to the Lord. I am very much happy to learn it. Does your husband sometimes help you in this connection or not? I think he should be also trained up so that one day in a week he may also take charge of the Deities although he has got many other duties. Yes, I have received the article from the Swedish newspaper. I could not read it, but it appears to be very nice. I have also received the two articles on the Rathayatra festival. Thank you very much. Hope this will meet you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS:dm Letter to: Yamuna -- Johannesburg 22 October, 1975 75-10-22 P.O. Box 65 Murphy, Oregon My dear Yamuna devi dasi, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated October 11, 1975 and I have noted the contents with care. The picture of the cows shows that they are very nice and friendly. You have my consent to go ahead with your plan of pratistha for Sri-Sri Radha-Krishna arca vigrahah. You may call them Radha-Banabihari. The idea of a woman's asrama is good. Those not married, if there is not provision for separate living quarters for them in the temples, they can go there. It is very risky having single women living in the temples, especially where there is no suitable living quarters. I hope that this meets you in good health. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS/pks Letter to: Jayatirtha -- Calcutta 13 January, 1976 76-01-13 Berkeley My dear Jayatirtha, Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated December 24th, 1975. The $1900 payment should be used half for Gurukula and half for the Temple. Regarding Yamuna and Dinatarine, they want to live independently, that is the defect. A woman cannot live independent. According the the Vedic culture a woman is always to be protected by a man. Why they should purchase a house? We already have Los Angeles. If they want they can have a separate asrama supported independently of ISKCON. Every woman in America has money, so why do they want support? No, the BBT cannot give them loan. You may check that they are chanting and following the rules but do not get involved with their management. So far your suggestion that they sew clothes for the sannyasis Deities it is not possible. Sannyasis may have no connection with women. I hope this meets you well. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS/tkg Letter to: Yamuna, Dinatarine -- Calcutta 13 January, 1976 76-01-13 My Dear Yamuna and Dinatarine, Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated December 24th, 1976. I am very pleased to see the nice photos of your Deities Radha Vanebehari. The singasana has also come out very nicely. You can attract the fair sex community. Most of them are frustrated being without any home or husband. If you can organize all these girls they will get a transcendental engagement and may not be allured to the frustration of life. Your engagement should be chanting and worship of the Deity Jiva Goswami advises that in the Kali-yuga sankirtana is the principle worship. Even if one chants many mantras it must be preceded by glorious sankirtana. Sankirtana is the maha-mantra. Yes, you are right, women are generally after sense gratification. That is the disease. Chant 24 hours a day and don't dress nicely to attract men. It is better that you don't make a large program. Remain a humble program. In bhakti there is no grotesque program. A humble program is better. We are doing all these grotesque programs to allure the masses. My Guru Maharaja used to say that no one hears from a person coming from a humble, simple life. You remain always very humble. So far as giving loans, I think it won't be possible because in India we require a huge amount of money for Bombay and Mayapur. We also have to build nice Temples at Kuruksetra and Jagannatha Puri. The Americans are accused of being C.I.A., so counteract this. We want to prove how Americans have constructed very large temples. Certainly it is not for C.I.A. propaganda. Sita Devi, Mother Laksmi, wife of Lord Ramacandra, went to live with Valmiki Muni in a cottage. Although she was a King's daughter and a King's wife, she preferred to live very humbly in the cottage of Valmiki Muni with two sons in the absence of Ramacandra. That should be the ideal example. Women when not with husband must live very very humbly and simple life. I hope this meets you well. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami ACBS/tkg Letter to: Yamuna, Dinatarine -- Mayapur 21 February, 1976 76-02-21 Murphy, Oregon My dear Yamuna and Dinatarine, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated February 4, 1976. Enclosed please find a true copy of my reply to your letter dated December 24th, 1976. The thing is cow protection is not possible for women. You can keep two or three cows, but on larger scale it is not possible. You should not try to take care of more. It is not women's business. Women's business is getting milk and making milk preparations. On the whole larger scale is not to be attempted by women. Manage a small asram, but don't try bigger scale, then you require the help of men. Don't try manual exertion, then again there is mixture and that is not desired. Simply keep yourself aloof from men--chanting, many more times as possible, read books, worship the deity. I am very much pleased with this girl Svati--she has adopted this white dress. She must not be attractive at all. A widow is forbidden to use ornaments, nice sari, decoration, combing the hair nicely. These are forbidden for the woman who is not with husband. I hope this meets you well. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami See Related VNN Stories | Comment on this Story This story URL: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9812/ET19-2705.html
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