10/21/1998 - 2391

Srila Prabhupada On Raganuga Bhakti

Editorial (VNN) - by Hrsikesananda das

Remembrances by Hrsikesananda das ACBSP:1967of Bengali conversations with H.D.G. Srila A.C. BhaktivedantaGoswami Prabhupada over a 2-3 week period in Mayapur, 1973

Ref. Srutakirti das & Satsvarupa Goswami

Relevant Srila Prabhupada quote:
"Regarding Hrsikesa das, he may come here to Mayapur and I will discusswith him what his engagement shall be. He speaks fluent Bengali,so he may teach the local boys here at our school."
(Mayapur, 5 June, 1973, letter to Tamal Krsna Goswami)

 When I went to join Sri "Swamiji" in Vrndavana, Jan. 1968, H.D.G. hadalready returned to America. So I went to the Gaudiya-Math underPrabhupada's Godbrother Tridandi Svami Bhakti-Hrdaya Vana (Bon) Maharaj.Srila Vana Maharaj told me that he had received word from Swamiji sayingthat I should stay put. So I remained, almost completely isolated, inVraja-dham for 6 years.

 Finally, in 1973, I abruptly left Srila Vana Maharaj and returned to thefeet of Srila Prabhupada in Mayapur. Whenever I would meet PrabhupadaH.D.G. was delighted to speak in Bengali. Every afternoon for a coupleweeks Srutakirti Prabhu would tell me that Prabhupada wanted to see me, andwe would converse in Bengali.

Because I had been brought-up in the Gaudiya Math with Indian devotees,Srila Prabhupada knew that I had been exposed to esoteric information aboutRupanuga-bhakti (the specific path of Rupa & Rati) and siddha-pranali. SoSrila Prabhupada would sometimes quiz me to see what I knew about"manasa-seva" or "bhajan," and I would also ask H.D.G. to clarify orapprove of things I had learned about 'the' subject.

 During this brief Guru-sanga I had the good fortune to also 'work'directly with Srila Prabhupada. Humbly I suggested to H.D.G. that he couldcomplete Srila Rupa Gosvami's Sri Upadesamrta very quickly because it wasonly 11 slokas. H.D.G. immediately asked me to bring my copy, and he tookthe book from my hand and then began right away. We started and basicallycompleted the Upadesamrta with Srila Prabhupadaover a period of two weeks in Mayapur.

While working on this book we also had further discussions about the maingoals mentioned in the book (Nectar of Instruction by Srila Rupa Goswami).I stayed in the room next to Prabhupada which was shared by SatsvarupaMaharaj and Srutakirti Prabhu. Pandit Pradyumna Prabhu also gaveinvaluable help for the book, even though he was very busy working on SriCaitanya Caritamrta. And not to forget Harikesa Swami for editing theoriginal manuscript which I took to Bombay and then mailed to SrilaPrabhupada in London. Jaya Ho!!!

 Although I can't remember the exact sequence of events, I do recall themain points covered...

 Some main points from all meetings:

ACBSP: So how is Bon (Vana) Maharaj?

HD: Busy with supporting his school, Gurudev.

ACBSP (in English): Yes, he is the "------" of the Institute of OrientalPhilosophy (a pun on his title at I.O.P.)---Prabhupada laughsaffectionately.

ACBSP: So what you have learned in Vrndavana?

HD: About Nitya-lila, Gurudev.

ACBSP: And?

HD: Siddha-pranali, asta-kaliya-lila-smaran-bhajan. It is true, isn't it,Gurudev?

ACBSP: Yes, but who is siddha?

HD: One out of millions of seekers (quoted the verse BG, "manushyanamsahasresu..." But isn't the Nitya-lila our goal, Gurudev?

ACBSP: Yes, we are the followers of Rupa-Raghunath. This is the highestunderstanding, to be dasanudas in Radha-Krsna's lila.

HD: But what about siddha-pranali? How to qualify? Who will give?

ACBSP: Guru will give. You just chant Hare Krsna.

HD: (I mentioned the story of Chota Krsnadas, who tried to quit his body byjumping into Manasa-ganga, when he heard that only his Guru, who hadalready departed, could give him siddha-pranali)...How to receive this eternal information, Gurudev?

ACBSP: Guru will give. There is no material consideration about Guru ishere or there. When you reach that level, Guru will give.

HD: Gurudev, what about manasa-seva, like the brahmana who burnt his fingerin meditation? Isn't that bhajan?

ACBSP: Krsna makes no distinction. But if you serve Krsna by mind He willaccept. That is sure!

HD: Gurudev, whenever I mention anything about Rupanuga bhakti many of myGodbrothers get angry and say it is all a bunch of Gaudiya Math nonsense,and you never taught that!

ACBSP: Everything is coming, they will also know it.

HD: Gurudev, is the "asta-kaliya-lila" by Kaviraj Goswamithe real Nitya-lila detail?

ACBSP: Yes.

HD: I would like to mention "asta-kaliya-lila" in this sloka 10 (Nectar ofInstruction). So we can all know from you the highest goal.What do you think?

ACBSP: Yes, you put it.

HD: How about these two slokas from BRS (Krsnam-smaran... / Seva sadhakarupena...) ? I think they will enhance this purport (NOI: sloka 8). Is thatOK?

ACBSP: Yes.

HD: Gurudev, what about rupanuga bhakti. What is the eternal relationshipbetween us (disciples) and you?

ACBSP: (Prabhupada quotes the 2nd half of sloka 6 of Gurvastaka) Guru isserving under his master and you all can do likewise. In Nitya-lila everydevotee thinks like that, that my master is the most dear to Radha-Krsna.

HD: So that means that my relationship with you is eternal, that it willcontinue in Nitya-lila?

ACBSP: Yes. *

HD: As manjaris?

ACBSP: Down to shakya.

HD: But for 'Rupanugas' isn't it always manjari-bhava?

ACBSP: Yes. That is the highest; but in the spiritual world there is nosuch distinction. Every one is KC, even the ------ (something like flowersor clouds, i.e., a santa-rasa example).

HD: Gurudev, is it true that Bhaktivinode's spiritual name is "......"manjari? And your Guru too, isn't he "...... ...... .......?"

ACBSP: Laughing! Oh, you have learned too much?

HD: I don't know anything, Gurudev, I have just heard about it. This is themain concern of devotees in the Gaudiya Math. It pains me to hear mygodbrothers criticize your Godbrothers...

ACBSP: Who is saying like that?

HD: Many, Gurudev. They say there is only preaching. But what aboutPrabhupada (H.D.G. Srila Sarasvati Thakura), I heard he was a bhajan-anandiwith no disciples. Kunja Vihari das (H.D.G. Tridandi-bikshu B.V. TirthaMaharaj) found him and brought him out to preach. Isn't it?

ACBSP: Yes, my Guru Maharaj came out to preach.

HD: Wasn't he already in the Nitya-lila ? How about Gaura-kishore, didn'the have only one disciple?

ACBSP: Yes, but he was one disciple better than thousands of others. He wasmy Guru Maharaj. He was there (Nitya-lila) but he kindly"came down" to preach.

HD: What about your Godbrother, Krsnadas Babaji, he has no disciples?

ACBSP: "Akinchan" Krsnadas.

HD: Yes, Gurudev.

ACBSP: Their are two types of devotees, bhajan-anandi & ghostya-anandi.Babaji Maharaj is in bhajan.

HD: He is always chanting "Hare Krsna!"

ACBSP: Yes, that is his only business. He is akinchan.

HD: Gurudev, what is the meaning of "bodhayan atman-atmanam" at the end ofSri Brahma Samhita (V/59), does it mean that we realize KRSNAand our own svarupa simultaneously?

ACBSP: Yes.

HD: What about realizing your svarupa, Gurudeva?

ACBSP: That is the same thing.

 At that point I was thinking to ask Prabhupada what was his spiritualname in Nitya-lila, but I was afraid he might chastise me for asking suchan exalted question, while in my obvious state of bondage.

*Without wanting to break the train of thought in the above conversations,I would like to add that one time I told Srila Prabhupada that I hadreturned to his protection because I knew that my "nitya-sambandha" waswith him, and I was wasting my time focusing on 'another'. ---SrilaPrabhupada simply smiled at me.

Once an interesting thing happened. Together with Devananda Swami we wentand asked Prabhupada to please chant on our new Tulasi japa malas fromVrndavana. As I was returning to Srila Prabhupada's feet and no longer hadmy original mala H.D.G. chanted on my mala.

But when Devananda tried to get Prabhupada to chant on his new beads H.D.G.became angry, and asked Devananda about his original (big red) NON-TULASIwooden beads from San Francisco...

ACBSP: What is the matter? Do you think your old (red) beadsare not Tulasi?

DS: No Gurudev. But...I just thought that these are from Vrndavana...

ACBSP (dismissing the whole matter): This is Krsna "Consciousness." Youshould never think for a moment that your old beads are not directlyTulasi! ---So Srila Prabhupada refused to chant on Devananda'snew Vrndavana-Tulasi beads.

On another occasion I was sharing armed guard duty with Satsvarupa Goswamiat 2am in Mayapura. When I walked past Prabhupada's room H.D.G. called mein. When I entered he told me that he wanted to sing one bhajan, and towake up Bharadraja. So we assembled on the floor and played kartals andmrdanga as Prabhupada sat on his bed with a harmonium and sang a privatebhajan! (which Bengali bhajan I cannot remember for certain).

 There was one other interesting experience during the time I was closeto Srila Prabhupada in Mayapura. One day Prabhupada held a mass "Hare Nam"initiation of new Bengali devotees before the Deities, in the temple room,which was open and on the ground floor. Jayapataka, Satsvarupa and otherMaharaja's were present along with about 100 devotees. I was seated nearPrabhupada when, during the ceremony, H.D.G. turned to me without anywarning and asked me (in Bengali) to explain the 10 Nam-aparadha to thesenew initiates in Bengali.

So, taking heart, I began with the mad-elephant offense, SATAM-NINDA!During that topic I also mentioned to the new devotees that this includes,especially, the Gaudiya Math and any of Prabhupada's Godbrothers or theirdisciples. Prabhupada was sitting there and he allowed me to drive homethis point...that it is a terrible and unpardonable offense to speak ill ofany Gaudiya Vaisnava. H.D.G. grace did not object at all, and he seemedpleased at my words.

When I finally reached offense #9, because of my false pride, SrilaPrabhupada withdrew my memory---I drew a blank. So I turned to H.D.G. andsaid that I had forgotten the last two. But Srila Prabhupada, withoutshowing the least displeasure, just immediately picked up where I had leftoff. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!!!

SOME MISTAKES IN THE ISKCON ASHRAM SYSTEM WHICHDEVIATE FROM THE BONA FIDE GAUDIYA MATHA STANDARDESTABLISHED BY SRILA SARASWATI THAKURA

 The reason I am mentioning this is to show that ISKCON's SrilaPrabhupada did not ever intend to change any teaching or system establishedby our Param Gurudeva, yet some things were changed by mistake...

1) Once when I was together with Srila Prabhupada in Mayapura, 1973,Sat Svarupa Maharaj came and gave me a "sannyasa mantra;" but when I readit I said it was not correct! We then went and asked HDG about this andSrila Prabhupada said it was a mistake and that I was correct. Even TKGMaharaj reminded me about this a few years ago in Vrindavana; he rememberedit well. Srutakirti Prabhu also is witness to this as is Sat SvarupaMaharaj.

 HDG always said that he was not inventing anything and that he wouldnever change the teachings nor systems given by his Gurudeva. Still theseand other mistakes have been blindly and fanatically accepted by ISKCONdevotees, but these mistakes should be corrected, just like the sannyasamantra was corrected..."Klim gopi-bhavasrayaya svaha!" This is thesannyasa-gayatri as given by Srila Sarasvati Thakura to his direct sannyasidisciples.

2) Bowing down during Prema Dhvani "Jaya!" Prayers. The bona fide system isto stand and bang drums and cymbals after each "Jaya!" and then bow downafter the Prema Dhvani are finished);

3) Another example is in the Prema Dhvani list where the correct BSSPsystem is to say, "Sri Radha-Krsna, GOPA, GOPI, GO, Syama-kunda,Radha-kunda,"...etc. But HDG sometimes mistakenly said, "Sri Radha-KrsnaGOPA GOPINATH."

We also checked the past and current Gaudiya Matha literature and "GOPA,GOPI, GO" is CORRECT (not "Gopa-Gopinatha" as always said by ISKCON).

4) Another mistake is in the Tulasi Prayers. They chant NIVEDENA instead ofNIVEDANA. There is no such word as NIVEDENA, either in Bengali, or inSanskrit.

5) Another mistake is the refusal by ISKCON to sing the Maha-mantra onehalf at a time. In Sri Gaudiya Matha the kirtana system is mostly to singone half stanza of the Maha-mantra followed by the refrain, and then thenext stanza...Bona fide example:

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare (REPEAT)Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare (REPEAT)

 This difference in the kirtana styles of Sri Gaudiya Matha (the rest ofthe Gaudiya Vaisnavas on Earth) and ISKCON has made it difficult for thetwo sides to chant together. I heard a tape of some ISKCON devotees tryingto follow Akinchan Krsnadas Babaji Maharaj's kirtana and the result wastotal disharmony and chaos; ISKCON men couldn't follow Babaji Maharaj eventhough he was singing exactly according to Srila Sarasvati Thakura's SriGaudiya Matha system. The correction for ISKCON devotees should be that theMaha-mantra can be sung both together AND in stanzas.

6) ETC......along with a number of others, headed by lame separatistelitism. Prabhupada just didn't have enough time to teach every littledetail to his movement. But he would want these things corrected to stay inline with the rest of the Gaudiya world. Prabhupada personally stated thatISKCON should seek advice from Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj, Srila B.R.Sridhar Maharaj, and other of his Godbrothers, in order to learn all thedetails.

 But rather than seek their wisdom ISKCON would rather hold itself up asall-knowing, all-perfect, and completely independent of the mother faith.And has gone so far as to even BAN senior Gaudiya Vaisnavas and treat themwith great disrespect.

 A perfect example is the samadhi of Prabhupada in Vrndavana. Without thekind guidance of Srila Narayana Maharaj not a single ISKCON devotee wasqualified to perform the rites. And how about now?

 ISKCON devotees perform a great dis-service to Srila Prabhupada bymaking him appear mistaken in these, and other, regards. Please standardizethe real system of Paramahansa Srila Sarasvati Thakura. For the well-fairof all ISKCON devotees everywhere.

 We MUST save the Gaudiya world from losing their traditions. It pains meto think that in the future all Gaudiya Vaisnavas will say, "jayaradha-krsna GOPA GOPINATH," in stead of the real bona fide way with"GOPA-GOPI-GO." All of the many changes ISKCON has made to the real systemmight be passed down to future generations. I feel sick just to think aboutit; and I want my son to learn the correct way, not the so-called new way.

 Please use common sense, let ISKCON get things correct or otherwise beconsidered to be an upstart cult. Do it for the pleasure of SrilaPrabhupada! Hare Krsna!!

JAYA SRILA PRABHUPADA!!!A servant of the servants,Hrsikesananda das ACBSP

SOME NOTES:

"I think your Braj/insights book is a great idea. Please do it right away!!"---H.G. Satyaraj Dasa Prabhu

"I was fascinated by your account of your talks with Prabhupada in Mayapur1973. I think this is wonderful and that it shows that Prabhupada was wellaware of the raganuga topics in all their details, but did not choose totell us about it cheaply. I also found it very significant that he said toyou that the Guru could reveal this, even after his disappearance. Thankyou for sharing this with the devotees."---H.H. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami

"I found the 'Prabhupada-smarana' interesting reading. I am glad that youare writing your remembrances of your conversations with Srila Prabhupada.Please continue to send me whatever else you produce."---H.H. Tamal-Krsna Goswami

"As far as your remembrances of Srila Prabhupada, I thought they were veryinteresting and very relevant."---H.H. Harikesa Swami

"Pleasantly surprised by your wonderful anecdote about Prabhupadasmaranam."---H.H. Mahanidhi Swami

"I have just read your Vraja-rasa-bindu. I was very pleased to read it. Asyou know from reading my own writings, I like it when devotees expressthemselves honestly, not just with official perfection. You have done thisand produced a very valuable memoir-confessional. At the same time, it is alearned presentation of the nectar of Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana,according to the Vaisnava scriptures and acaryas. Quite a tastycombination."

---H.H. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami

"I saw your booklet of Prabhupada and Vrindaban memories. It is, like allmemories of Srila Prabhupada, interesting, enlightening and enlivening, butyour memories are of particular interest and relevance on very importanttopics. Thank you."

---H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami

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 Richard S. Brown, Jr.
 Gemologist & Designer
 Astral Gemstone Talismans,
 Bangkok, Kingdom of Thailand
 mailto:hrisi@ksc15.th.com
 http://www.agt-gems.com/AGTbook/AGTrsb.html
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