02/21/98 - 1632

No Varnasrama-dharma on Chakra

USA (VNN) - by Janesvara dasa

I recently submitted my four (4) part series entitled, "If Not Varnasrama-dharma, What?", which can be found in one (1) part on the VNN Forums - Varnashram Dharma, to Chakra for posting on their web page in the interests of presenting my opinions regarding these issues as I do from time to time on COM: Varnasrama Development.

Perhaps you may be interested in Chakras review of my submission. It did not really expect them to run the article in the first place and the responses from Umapati Swami confirmed those suspicions.

The following are the responses and replies of my unsuccessful attempts:

>From Umapati Swami on 2/15/98:
Dear Janesvara Prabhu, Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! We are still discussing your article. There are two problems. First, you say that varnasama is more important than book distribution. Can you give us a quote from Srila Prabhupada on that? Second, you speak of the butchers being engaged in preparing deerskin for sages to sit on. Do the sages in our line sit on deerskin? And who will kill the deer? These are the problems. Sorry for not having contacted you sooner. Are you Janesvara from Almvik? Krsne matir astu. Your servant, Umapati Swami

Janesvara dasa reply on 2/15/98:
Dear Umapati Swami: Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Thank you very much for your reply to my request to post my opinions regarding varnasrama- dharma on your web page, Chakra. I believe the subject matter of my text is very pertinent to the debates and criticisms being engaged in by the various factions of Vaisnavas who express themselves through the media known as the Internet. Indeed, it is my humble opinion that most, if not all, of the discussions on your and other similar Internet WWW pages are trying to cure a particular disease or diseases, as you may see them, by treating the symptoms of those diseases instead of treating the disease - the failure to establish daiva varnasrama-dharma within every ISKCON center as ordered by our Guru Maharaja 23 years, 11 months and 3 days ago. I am glad that you and your associates are still discussing my article and that there are only two (2) problems. I am the greatest fool and I would not have been surprised if you had found several problems. I will answer your questions with the hope that you will agree that the implementation of Vedic educational development and practicable application - establishing daiva varnasrama- dharma - within our society of devotees and, as far as possible, within the general society of human beings is essential to stop the chaotic, divisive and non-brahminical activities which are so prevalent at this time. It is my firm conviction that there is nothing more important.

> We are still discussing your article. There are two problems.
> First, you say that varnasama is more important than book distribution.
> Can you give us a quote from Srila Prabhupada on that?

Can you give me the quote where I said that? No. You cannot, because I did not say that. As a brahamana/sannyasi surely you must know the grave consequences for those who accept that title but who change the words of others for some ulterior motive. I pray sir, that that was not your intention?

What I DID say is as follows: We must realize that distributing the books is not the highest preaching - living the example taught in the books is the highest preaching. If Srila Prabhupada did not live the example presented in his books, how many disciples/devotees would he have made? Real disciples/devotees, that is.

Do you disagree with this opinion of mine?

On morning walks with Srila Prabhupada this daiva varnasrama-dharma was discussed as follows:
Visnujana Swami: This is the most auspicious work for now, this remedial measure to stop the chaos in the world right now? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, most auspicious. If the people are in chaos, how will they be able to accept the great philosophy? It requires a cool brain." SP Vrindavana 1974

Don't we want to do the "most auspicious" work as defined by Srila Prabhupada so long ago?

May I ask you: Can you give me a quote from Srila Prabhupada where he says that book distribution is more important than daiva varnasrama-dharma? Are they not exactly the same? "Before coming to the standard of varnasrama-dharma there is no question of human civilization. Therefore, the Krsna consciousness movement is trying to establish this right system of human civilization, which is known as Krsna consciousness, or daiva-varnasrama - divine culture." Srila Prabhupada, Science of Self Realization. Also, during Srila Prabhupada's varnasrama-dharma morning walks in Vrindavana, India 23 years, 11 months and 3 days ago he stated, "Some of you are preaching and some of you are cleansing the temple. That does not mean that a sannyasi who is preaching, he is better than that man who is cleansing. The position of Vaisnava is the same."

> Second, you speak of the butchers being engaged in preparing deerskin for
> sages to sit on. Do the sages in our line sit on deerskin?

Why can't they? Are they better than those sages of Vedic times?

> And who will kill the deer?

I will if no one else will. What is the problem? I am very fallen, but I try to fulfill my prescribed duties to the best of my ability. I am able to kill a deer and I will not hesitate to do so by the orders of Srila Prabhupada: "Sometimes ksatriyas go to the forest to kill animals like deer because they have to learn the art of killing, and sometimes they eat the animals also." S.B. 6.4.9 "Just like the ksatriyas, they must learn how to kill. So, practically they should go to the forest and kill some animal, and if he likes he can eat also." SP Vrin 1974

I would not take great joy in killing a deer, but to practice being a prospective ksatriya I will do it. I do not eat meat either, but if another devotee/prospective ksatriya wants to kill a deer in the forest and eat it I will not be bothered in the least.

We must PRACTICE daiva varnasrama-dharma just like we PRACTICE Krsna consciousness. PRACTICE does not mean that we are doing it perfectly - that's what PRACTICE means! But, PRACTICE makes PERFECT. We must start implementing daiva varnasrama-dharma immediately within this movement of Srila Prabhupada. Way too much time has already passed for us to be anything but repentant for not following our Guru Maharaja's orders. On the most auspicious day of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's appearance day, March 12, 1998, we will also be observing the 24th year since Srila Prabhupada gave his orders: "The varnasrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our centers, a varnasrama college should be established to train all divisions" How long shall we neglect to fulfill this most important order?

> Are you Janesvara from Almvik?

No, I am Janesvara dasa initiated in New York in 1974. My Guru is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. I was initiated at the same time Vipramukhya Swami was initiated in Brooklyn. I was temple commander of the Brooklyn temple. By the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, I found and was the first resident of Gita-nagari in Pennsylvania.

Krsne matir astu. Your fallen servant, Janesvara dasa

P.S. Just one small item I am currently working on is obtaining an instructors license for Firearms and Hunter Education so I will be qualified to perform such duties for fulfilling Srila Prabhupada's orders to establish varnasrama-dharma in his movement. I have been a Real Property Administrator for the last 15 years.

Reply from Umapati Swami on 2/17/98:

Dear Jahnesvara Prabhu, Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
>> We are still discussing your article. There are two problems.
>> First, you say that varnasama is more important than book distribution.
>> Can you give us a quote from Srila Prabhupada on that?

> Can you give me the quote where I said that? No. You cannot, because I did
> not say that. As a brahamana/sannyasi surely you must know the grave
> consequences for those who accept that title but who change the words of
> others for some ulterior motive. I pray sir, that that was not your
> intention?

I find this extremely rude. I do not normally answer abusive e-mail. I just delete it. I did not write you anything in this tone, and I refuse to deal with it. If this is your conception of varnasrama, then you have a long way to go.

> What I DID say is as follows: We must realize that distributing the books
> is not the highest preaching - living the example taught in the books is
> the highest preaching. If Srila Prabhupada did not live the example
> presented in his books, how many disciples/devotees would he have made?
> Real disciples/devotees, that is.

Sorry, but your writing was misunderstood not only by me, but by many others. Therefore the fault is yours for writing unclearly, regardless of how clear you think it is. And to say that living the books is higher than distributing them, well, you will have to justify that. If you want to say that they are equally important, we can discuss that. Please understand that if there is any more abusive e-mail, I will simply trash it.
Yours, Umapati Swami

Janesvara dasa reply on 2/17/98:

Dear Umapati Swami: PAMHO. AGTSP!

>>Dear Jahnesvara Prabhu,

(Please, the name is: Janesvara dasa)

>> We are still discussing your article. There are two problems.
>> First, you say that varnasama is more important than book distribution.
>> Can you give us a quote from Srila Prabhupada on that?

>> Can you give me the quote where I said that? No. You cannot, because I did
>> not say that. As a brahamana/sannyasi surely you must know the grave
>> consequences for those who accept that title but who change the words of
>> others for some ulterior motive. I pray sir, that that was not your intention?
>>I find this extremely rude. I do not normally answer abusive e-mail. I just delete it. I did not write you anything in this tone, and I refuse to deal with it.

With all due respect, Prabhu, you clearly misquoted my comments and the only reason I can imagine you doing it in the manner you did was to accuse me of making an inflammatory and inaccurate statement. That certainly seemed the tone to me. Otherwise, why juggle my words? Did you not expect an equally strong retort? I do not find this type of thing in our debates on the varnasrama development conference. It is only good manners that is required to not misquote anothers words. I feel that the rudeness started not on my end. But I did not plan on deleting your reply or refuse to deal with it despite your impolite reply. On the battlefield of debate such exchanges of words are minor skirmishes only. If you wish to leave the field I will understand.

>If this is your conception of varnasrama, then you have a long way to go.

I have a long way to go without doubt. I have crores of lifetimes to go before I understand even a speck of devotional service/daiva varnasrama-dharma. But if you do not like to have responses like mine, I would humbly submit that you should not change people's words.

>> What I DID say is as follows: We must realize that distributing the books
>> is not the highest preaching - living the example taught in the books is
>> the highest preaching. If Srila Prabhupada did not live the example
>> presented in his books, how many disciples/devotees would he have made?
>> Real disciples/devotees, that is.

> Sorry, but your writing was misunderstood not only by me, but by many others.
> Therefore the fault is yours for writing unclearly, regardless of
> how clear you think it is.

I am full of faults. But where do you, or the many others, find anywhere in my text my stating "varnasrama is more important than book distribution"? The phrase is simply not there!

>And to say that living the books is higher than distributing them, well, you
>will have to justify that. If you want to say that they are equally
>important, we can discuss that.

As I stated, it is my opinion.

"Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has said that in order to preach, one must live a practical life and show people how to do things. One cannot teach others unless he behaves the same way himself." S.B. 5.4.8.

"It is not that everyone becomes purified by entering the Ganges. Everything, spiritual and material , depends on one's mental condition." S.B. 10.10.4.

>Please understand that if there is any more abusive e-mail, I will simply trash it.
>Yours, Umapati Swami

It is unfortunate that once again the most important issue of establishing daiva varnasrama-dharma in every center as ordered by Srila Prabhupada 23 years, 11 months and 5 days ago has been sidetracked due to politics. Is there any way to discuss it? I can only imagine how "abusive" Srila Prabhupada would be with us if he returned to see our neglect of following his orders regarding establishing varnasrama in HIS movement.

Krsne matir astu. Your fallen servant, Janesvara dasa