VNN Europe - Jayapataka Swami Meets Harikesa, Oct 3


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EUROPE

November 16, 1998   VNN2510   See Related VNN Stories

Jayapataka Swami Meets Harikesa, Oct 3

BY JAYAPATAKA SWAMI

GERMANY, Nov 16 (VNN) — 1. INITIAL CONTACT AT HOUSE: We reached Harikesa Maharaja's house at 11:30am on October 3rd, 1998. It was Madhavi dd's birthday at Arbenteur ISKCON so I brought some birthday cake. I also brought about 8 letters for Harikesa Maharaja from disciples in the temples I had passed through including a collection of photos from the Deities in Korsnas Gard, Sweden from Kailasavasini dd. Harikesa Maharaja asked me to sit down and he sat at his desk and I was across. I gave him the various letters and presents. He laid out the photos on the table of Korsnas Gard ISKCON Gandharvika

Giridhari Deities exclaiming "Wonderful!", "Wonderful", "Beautiful", etc. as he looked at each photo. He spread them out over the desk so he could see all the photos. I mentioned how beautiful these Deities were and he also said they were special for him. Then I gave a photo of Radha Madan Mohan Deity of Arbenteuer ISKCON, Germany from Bhavisya dd. When Harikesa Maharaja saw that picture he stopped and stared at the photo very intently. He became motionless and his eyes eventually produced some tears which he wiped off. Nanda Kumar das, my travelling secretary, took three digital photos at that time until he protested about it. Nanda Kumar das explained how he was Bhakti Caru Swami's initiated disciple, but was serving as my travelling secretary. Harikesa Maharaja commented what a wonderful devotee Bhakti Caru Swami was.

2. OFFERING ASSISTANCE FROM DISCIPLES TO HKM: I mentioned to Harikesa Maharaja how much his disciples missed him and wanted him to be with them. That it was natural they liked ISKCON for its devotees, Deities, activities, teachings, etc. He mentioned how there was nobody to talk to. He had no one to talk to. No one was helping him. I showed the rear of Bhavisya dd's photo to him where she wrote if she could help with anything. She could cook or clean his flat. He then went into a description of how devotees had mistreated him and were unreliable.

3. HKM GRIEVANCES AGAINST DEVOTEES: Then Harikesa Maharaja went on to describe other grievances. He said that Ganga dd had put "vibhuti" into some pancakes and he ate 15 of them which knocked him out for 6 hours. Some other devotees had taken 3 pancakes and were knocked out for 3 hours. He said caranamrita had been spiked with "Vibhuti" drugs.

4. ANGRY AT CITTESWARA: He was very angry at Citteswara das for giving him the psychotropic drug spiked vibhuti. So the conclusion seemed to be that although he was complaining that he had no help he didn't trust anyone to help him anymore. I didn't understand then why he was always complaining that no one was helping when he also wouldn't accept any help.

5. SANNYASA DAS BRINGS LADY: I told him I had heard that Sannyas das had brought emotinally imbalanced lady to him, Nirvindhya dd. Harikesa Maharaja said they had told him her Deities were talking to her and had told her something. So he was convinced to go and see her Deities at her hotel room. When he went to the hotel room with Sannyas das she showed a photo of some Deities and said these talked to her. She said some funny things and Harikesa Maharaja gave her some advice and left. Later Sannyas das brought her to Harikesa Maharaja's room when he was out. She waited on Harikesa Maharaja's bed and when he came she told him how it was revealed to her that she was his eternal consort and servitor. She tried to engage him in sex,

but Harikesa Maharaja said he threw her out. Harikesa Maharaja called Sannyas das and others involved in this fools. He repeatedly said about Sannyas das "they don't really understand me either." I told him my understanding was he was in love and wanted love not some cheap sex. He agreed with that and repeatedly said that they don't understand what it is to love someone. That you can't love someone and just switch to someone else.

6. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE: Harikesa Maharaja discussed his feelings of love for Monika. I don't know how much it is appropriate to report. Although Harikesa Maharaja said I could repeat anything he said it seems some discretion is appropriate otherwise he may take it otherwise and not allow me to dkiscuss with him again in the future. He spoke for a long time on his sentiment of love for Monika. I asked if they had broken up, but he said no, but there was some misunderstanding which they were working out. He said whatever she did he stilled loved her. I mentioned how this wasn't an eternal relationship. That it was also part of the material world. He didn't verbally respond to that.

7. ABOUT DISCIPLES: I mentioned how Annapurna dd from Sweden had asked me whether Harikesa Maharaja still really cares about them since they had offered him so much devotional service in love and felt there was a relationship, but now they didn't know whether it means anything to him.

Harikesa Maharaja said that off course he cares about them. I mentioned how his disciples would like him to come back and be with them in ISKCON. He said he wouldn't be a member of an organization anymore. He didn't want to be controlled by an organization. He didn't want to be controlled. When I mentioned how his disciples have been serving him and loved him. He said he didn't want to be controlled by love either. He didn't want to be controlled any more. Therefore he was out of the institution. He would try to help individuals but he didn't want to be part of any institution. I mentioned how his disciples loved him and cared about him. He said that they had drained him and depleted his ethereal body and that it was too much for him to sustain.

8. CARING ABOUT DEVOTEES: Harikesa Maharaja preached on how he wants to see the devotees in ISKCON happy and cared for. How he wants to see things improve in "our society". That there needs to be a lot more of caring and loving amongst devotees. I mentioned that I had been preaching this for a couple of years and he admitted that he appreciated that. That was one reason why he was talking to me. I also explained to him how we could use his help for expanding the congregational preaching and he could come back and help with that. He liked congregational preaching and thought it was a brilliant idea.

9. LETTERS TO HKM: Harikesa Maharaja had read some of the letters I gave him while I was in the bathroom. When I came back I asked him about disciples writing to him. He said they could send their letters to Guru Sakti das in Dole and he would get them from him. Harikesa Maharaja commented that many letters were useless since they simply said they hoped he would get well soon. Obviously Harikesa Maharaja now feels he is fully healthy and therefore writing to him to get better domesn't please him. He wasn't so impressed by many letters. Some of the letters were opened on his desk so it was obvious that he looked at them. One would need to carefully write a letter if they want him to read it. In any case it is a disciples duty to try to bring back the spiritual master to the right path so writing him is one way of doing that. Some letter might actually reach his heart. A disciple had asked how to send him some gift. He said he wasn't asking anyone to do so, but if they wanted to then also c/o Guru Sakti das.

10. ABOUT ST. PETERSBURG: I asked about St. Petersburg Temple and Kamalamala das and the devotees there. He said he also wouldn't lead them. He didn't want anything to do with any organization. So he was not there leader and whatever they were doing it was their own thing and he wasn't responsible. I asked why not tell them to not do harm to ISKCON. He said he told them not to do violence to themselves, or to others. I explained how there was a lot of disturbance in Russia over this thing and wouldn't it be better to avoid fighting with each other. He agreed that he didn't want fighting between devotees. But he said it was out of his hands and if I wanted to do anything about it I should talk with Sannyas das and Kamalamala das and others. Harikesa Maharaja said they were all very reasonable people and could be discussed with.

11. ABOUT SRILA PRABHUPADA: Then Harikesa Maharaja said how he felt Srila Prabhupada had made many mistakes in ISKCON. That these mistakes have to be corrected. That Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee, but he isn't God. That in ISKCON we are putting Srila Prabhupada in too big a position. When he was getting a bit too heavy and graphic for me then I covered my ears and said "Visnu, Visnu, Visnu". I had prayed to Srila Prabhupada what could I do for Harikesa Maharaja which would please Srila Prabhupada. It seemed that Srila Prabhupada wanted me to get him to admit that Srila Prabhupada had no ill intention and everything he did was for Harikesa Maharaja best interests. So I asked Harikesa Maharaja what he though Srila Prabhupada's intentions were. Harikesa Maharaja said that Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee and his intentions were the best: "To spread love of Godhead all over the world." I thought it was nice that he at least admitted that.

12. HURT ABOUT SRILA PRABHUPADA: However, it gave me distress that Harikesa Maharaja so freely liked to say that Srila Prabhupada made mistakes. I said that Srila Prabhupada himself said he wasn't God. That in preaching there might be strategies which one employs and if it doesn't work one might change it, so Srila Prabhupada did that sometimes. That shouldn't be considered a mistake as such. That Srila Prabhupada didn't make any mistakes on Krishna consciousness principles. Harikesa Maharaja asked "principles?" "which, what?" I explained that Srila Prabhupada always stuck carefully to the principles of sadhu, sastra and Guru and that on these principles Srila Prabhupada couldn't be said to be mistaken. Harikesa Maharaja didn't seem to agree, but then didn't want to disturb me by going further in discussing about Srila Prabhupada.

13. ABOUT SANNYASA: Harikesa Maharaja explained how he never wanted to take Sannyas. He gave a history which I don't know if it is true, but it is what he says. That Srila Prabhupada preached for him subtly for a week about Sannyas. Then Harikesa dasa asked Srila Prabhupada for sannyas thinking it is what Srila Prabhupada wanted. Harikesa Maharaja told me that Srila Prabhupada asked him why he wanted to take sannyas. Harikesa Maharaja feels it was some kind of reverse psychology being used. But then Harikesa Maharaja finally said he didn't want to take sannyas at the end of the discussion. Then at 2AM Tamal Krishna Goswami woke him up and told him Srila Prabhupada wanted to speak to him. Harikesa dasa went to see Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada told him he would give him sannyas.

14. TRIED HIS BEST AT BEING A SANNYASI: Harikesa Maharaja said that although he didn't really want to take sannyas. That he didn't feel it was according to his nature he accepted it and did a good job at it. He revealed that around 1980-81 he was having trouble with his mind and wanted some advice how to deal with it. Harikesa Maharaja told me he talked with three people: Hari Sauri Prabhu (then a sannyasi), Bhagavan das (then a sannyasi) and me (Jayapataka Swami). He said when he told me I didn't say anything to him. v I felt bad when he told me that now and I apologized for not responding. I told him I didn't remember anything about it. He said I was very stiff and cold in those days, but he didn't hold it against me as he saw I have changed and he has developed an appreciation for me gradually over the years. Harikesa Maharaja said Bhagavan dasa spread the news around to try to destroy him and he was upset with him. Harikesa Maharaja said Hari Sauri dasa had preached to him appropriately and for that he was eternally indebted to him. Harikesa Maharaja said he then got himself together after that and somehow kept things under control.

15. FINDING SANNYAS IN FLAT: Harikesa Maharaja went to the bathroom and I went into Radhanath das's room to say hello to Harikesa Maharaja's servant. We had a nice relationship so I wanted to encourage him. To my surprise I found Sannyasa dasa was also sitting there. Then I knew that he had been listening to all that we had discussed. Harikesa Maharaja explained that he called Sannyas das to help him with managing something he was doing. That he needed his help. He again mentioned that he felt alone though that no one understood him even Sannyas das was a fool since he brought that lady. This proved that he also didn't understand him. I was hoping this would mean that Sannyas das would fall out of favor of Harikesa Maharaja, but my hopes were not founded. Sannyas das may have fallen a few notches in Harikesa Maharaja's favor, but still he was his close assistant it seemed. Although Harikesa Maharaja thought him a foolish assistant in understanding his inner feelings or intentions. Sannyas das was worried that Harikesa Maharaja would come back to ISKCON, but it seems that fear is also unfounded since Harikesa Maharaja has no declared intention to return to ISKCON.

16. REGARDING RETURNING TO ISKCON: Last time when I met with Harikesa Maharaja he had told me three times that he might come back to ISKCON if things were better. I asked about that and why the changes after our meeting. He said that he liked me and that is why he was giving me an interview. That he didn't give interviews to others since they didn't deal with him nicely. That he was totally convinced that he could never have anything to do with ISKCON after the way that Naresvara das dealt with him. He said that Naresvara das and Abhirama Das came to see him after I left and told him that he was not getting the money he asked for. He said initially he was very angry, but then after 20 minutes he became detached and didn't care any more. That actually his threats were just a bluff and he told that to Lochan das or someone (can't remember for sure who he told). That he couldn't do anything against ISKCON. He told me the German detectives wanted him to make a complaint against ISKCON, but he realized they were demons and he didn't do it. He said he couldn't do anything that would harm ISKCON. I said that in Russia so much harm had been done to ISKCON. He said he couldn't do anything about that. That people left ISKCON because they didn't like it.

17. FINANCIAL CONSIDERATONS: Harikesa Maharaja said all he really wanted was a leased house in Arbentheuer to be fixed up so that he could live in peace. He didn't want any strings so that he would be kicked out if he said something that people didn't like, but he was happy to live near the temple and for that purpose he wanted 500,000 DM. That also at first wasn't being given to him, but finally he got the money and he had no other claims now. But he didn't want to be under an institution or controlled any more. He kept repeating this point and I was thinking it unusual since he was so much controlled in his relationship with Monika and for that he didn't mind because of "love". So why he can't also be controlled by the love of devotees and spiritual master? I didn't go into that since it seemed too sensitive an issue at this time.

18. REVEALING WHAT HE SAID: I asked him what I could say of what he told me this time. Then he said "what is the use of keeping a secret? It gets out anyway. Better people know. You can repeat anything I have said today." Still I feel that everything he said isn't appropriate to be repeated.

19. NEWSPAPER ARTICLE: I showed Harikesa Maharaja the Moscow Times September 23rd article "SEX QUESTION SPLITS HARE KRISHNAS". He read the whole article with interest from beginning to end. In the beginning he commented about the title. That the issue wasn't about sex but about human relationships and love. I told him the article seemed to be promoted by Kamalamala das. He said where does it say that. I said there were karmi names and he could say whose names they were. He admitted it was Kamalamala das who was doing a lot of the talking. Harikesa Maharaja said he heard that devotees were happy there. He repeated that he wasn't their leader. He would be available for advice, but he would not lead them. That he told them devotees should be self-sufficient. That they should get married and have community. That he heard theyare trying to do that, but although it was complicated to achieve they were making some progress.

20. LEAVING GERMANY: He told me he was leaving Germany. Eventually he was still planning to have a Healing Centre. That he wanted to train devotees to do healing. That devotees had less false ego so they were natural healers. That before someone could come up to Krishna consciousness they first needed to reach the mode of goodness. That all the GBC Rules were of no use. That Laws like not to steal and lie were needed to guide people in mode of goodness. Once they reached goodness then they could only go higher. That devotees were not even on the platform of goodness so how they could go higher. He wanted to provide free or as inexpensive as possible training for devotees to do healing. He would have professionals also to do psychiatric checks. He said he was able to do healing now but that Monika was more powerful than he was.

21. BACKGROUND HISTORY OF MONIKA RELATIONSHIP: He explained how a couple of years before he felt there was someone on the earth who was meant for him. It suddenly struck him that there was a life partner on earth. But then he put it out of his consciousness since he was a sannyasi and it didn't make any sense. Then one day he gave a class at Arbentheuer and Monika was sitting in the back of the class. He gave a strong class, but once his eyes made contact with her. He immediately felt something change in his heart, but then he avoided looking at her again. He put it out of his mind. Then he had his collapse and was in the hospital. He said his ethereal body was destroyed or damaged so he wasn't healing properly. Then Monika came one day. As soon as he saw her he told me he knew that this was going to be "trouble". At first he didn't accept it but due to some instructions he got from Narasimhadeva he later realized and accepted that it was actually her. She was the one. Harikesa Maharaja praised Monika's healing capabilities and how she rebuilt his ethereal body or pranic body. How she had saved his life. That she put back his emotions and feelings which had been lost. That he wanted to marry her, but she wasn't agreeable at present. He hoped they could work together.

22. ADDITIONAL POINTS: Harikesa Maharaj didn't want to take the cake since he thought it might have some drugs in it, but when Nanda Kumar das, my travelling secretary, told him how good it was he ended up eating one and a half pieces of cake with relish. I sprinkled some Deity wWe talked for many hours, maybe four hours in total. So many things were said. I can't write down everything. I wrote some of the highlights. He said he prayed to Radha Madhava when he was collapsing. He said he wouldn't go back to Mayapur until it was cleaned of all child abuse. He said he wanted to maintain personal relations with devotees, but not to be part of the institution. At the end of the day he seemed happier than when I came. Although I didn't have any breakthroughs or big changes to report. Many things were confirming the continuing problem and route that he has been on. Still I felt somewhat happier that I had spent the day with him. It seemed good that he could talk with someone openly in confidence. He said I was welcome to come again after he gets settled down wherever he moves to.

He didn't want to say where that was at since he wanted some time in peace before he reveals where he is newly situated.

Yours in service,

Jayapataka Swami

[Text 1851416 from COM]

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